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worfbacca Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 105
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:16 am Post subject: Lightsaber Base Difficulty rule |
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My friend interprets the 2nd edtion R&E rules for Full Reaction on a lightsaber as thus.
Attacker decides to attack target with lightsaber
Defender decides to use full dodge
All new attacker difficulties applied
He believes that this included the base difficulty for using a lightsaber. So Instead of Difficult it is now Difficult+Whatever just to use the saber..not hit the guy.
Is this correct or not? _________________ "That was left handed!" |
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Crell Damar Line Captain
Joined: 31 Jul 2003 Posts: 845
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:21 am Post subject: |
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It's base difficulty + defender's parry to hit the guy, base difficulty is used for determining whether or not the lightsaber user inflicts self injury. _________________ "For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire. "
Obi-Wan Kenobi |
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worfbacca Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 105
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:29 pm Post subject: Base Difficulty |
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But the base difficulty to use the lightsaber is unaffected by a full reaction parry roll..only the reaction(parry) is affected correct? 2nd edtion R&E says all attackers difficulties' are increased. My friend thinks that includes the base difficulty of the lightsaber. _________________ "That was left handed!" |
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Rathe Ehtar Commander
Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 440 Location: Vacaville, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Lightsaber difficulty is difficult which is about 18-20. Full parry is your roll plus the difficulty number to hit you. _________________ "I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives men wings." -Max Payne
"I don't buy that cluck like a dog, bark like a chicken stuff." -Col. Jack O'Neill |
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Gry Sarth Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004 Posts: 5304 Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Do you guys play lightsabers so that you can't hit anybody unless you roll at least a 16 (minium for Difficult difficulty)?
I started a new Jedi campaign this weekend and we soon abandoned this rule, since if we played it like that, nobody would ever hit anyone. We still stuck by the rule that if you roll less then difficulty-10 (in this case 6) you hit yourself. But needing to roll a 16 to hit an imobile target seemed a little harsh...
What do you think? Are we making a mistake? |
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Volar the Healer Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 664 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I would say yes, you are making a mistake. I have always required a 20 to hit with this weapon in combat because much of the wielder's concern is on not hitting himself. This increases the difficulty.
Generally, though not always, it requires a 5 to hit with your hand (or a small knife), a 10 to hit with a larger one handed weapon (such as a sword or club), a 15 to hit with a two handed weapon, and a 20 to hit with a weapon that can cut yourself in half if you screw up (a lightsaber). This seems reasonable to me, especialy since the larger weapons require more skill. The game difficulty is balanced with the damage the weapons inflict.
I have often ruled it takes less to hit a stationary object when opposition is not a problem, such as cutting open a dead taun-taun or a door. This might be a better approach than lowering the overall difficulty.
After all, if you actually had an opportunity to twirl a lightsaber all around yourself - wouldn't you be more carefull? Given the opportunity in real life, wouldn't you think twice before even turning the thing on? _________________ Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace |
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obidancer Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 230 Location: New York, NY
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:01 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Volar. Instead of reducing difficulties, try to add bonuses to hit stationary objects. THis way you may just roll a 10 but with another +10 bonus you still hit the skill difficulty... |
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Volar the Healer Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 664 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Base Difficulty |
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worfbacca wrote: | But the base difficulty to use the lightsaber is unaffected by a full reaction parry roll..only the reaction(parry) is affected correct? 2nd edtion R&E says all attackers difficulties' are increased. My friend thinks that includes the base difficulty of the lightsaber. |
I would rule the base difficulty is unaffected. The lightsaber requires a 20 to hit. Your friend probably wasn't playing when the 1st edition was all there was, but in 1st edition the rules stated only another lightsaber could parry a lightsaber. (Given the Expanded Universe material I've seen, I would include a Sith sword and force pike to the list of weapons that can parry a lightsaber, but everything else is useless.) A crowbar / bar stool / vibroblade / whatever offer no resistance to a lightsaber, so the lightsaber wielder still needs a 20 to hit no matter what the defender's parry roll is.
Now a defender who dodges the lightsaber, can add to the lightsaber's difficulty - even though he rolls his melee parry (assuming he has a weapon that can parry) or brawling parry -10 to the lightsaber's attack difficulty. I remind you the rules state one cannot dodge a melee or brawling attack, but instead must use his parry skill. I require players to use the brawling parry skill -10 even though we realize they're actually dodging.
I consider the lightsaber to have hit the wielder if the wielder rolls 10 or less. Your friend is right in that the rule requires the possibility of self injury to increase, but I ignore this. Why? Because I don't like it. _________________ Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace |
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Rathe Ehtar Commander
Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 440 Location: Vacaville, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Um, brawling parry is not only blocking but dodging, ducking and weeving out of the way. The skill brawling parry is a misnomer in this respect. Using the example of lightsaber vs. unarmed, the lightsaber wielder gets a +10 to hit. The defenders skill roll is not penalized. Also, one does not have to parry with the melee wpn while still using the melee parry skill, as stated on pg. 90 of SW2ndR&E, to get out of the way.
Personally, I keep lightsaber difficulty as the stated difficult. I mean if kids can do it... Cercumstance modifiers make the roll more or less difficult. Right? _________________ "I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives men wings." -Max Payne
"I don't buy that cluck like a dog, bark like a chicken stuff." -Col. Jack O'Neill |
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MA-3PO Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 236 Location: Olathe, Kansas
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to beat a dead tauntaun but...
So the difficulty to use a lightsaber is 20 but the Jedi rolls a 14. Ok, now the defender rolls Melee Parry (not full parry) as his defense and gets a 9.
Does the Jedi hit the target because he rolled higher than the defender even though he didn't get 20? |
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Krapou Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Posts: 173 Location: Bordeaux, France
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:21 am Post subject: |
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MA-3PO wrote: | Sorry to beat a dead tauntaun but...
So the difficulty to use a lightsaber is 20 but the Jedi rolls a 14. Ok, now the defender rolls Melee Parry (not full parry) as his defense and gets a 9.
Does the Jedi hit the target because he rolled higher than the defender even though he didn't get 20? | Yes, IMHO it is the same that with ranged attacks.
If the target tries to defend, the difficulty number is his reaction result.
(that's why we rarely use the lightsaber diffuculty number, since usually people try to defend ) |
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MA-3PO Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 236 Location: Olathe, Kansas
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:37 am Post subject: |
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If the Jedi rolls a 10 or less does he miss no matter what? (Since he probably just injured himself) |
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Krapou Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Posts: 173 Location: Bordeaux, France
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:31 am Post subject: |
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Well, it is up to the GM, but I would say yes |
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Volar the Healer Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 664 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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MA-3PO wrote: | Sorry to beat a dead tauntaun but...
So the difficulty to use a lightsaber is 20 but the Jedi rolls a 14. Ok, now the defender rolls Melee Parry (not full parry) as his defense and gets a 9.
Does the Jedi hit the target because he rolled higher than the defender even though he didn't get 20? |
I would say no. The Jedi still requires a 20 to hit. If a Jedi cannot hit his target (because he's too busy concentrating on not cutting his own leg off), he will not hit that target because that target is attempting to parry the Jedi's ineffective attack. _________________ Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14213 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:53 am Post subject: |
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I have always ran it, that the jedi using the LS has to hit the base diff or the parry which ever is higher, but the base diff (16) still comes into play, as with a LS you DO have to worry more about cutting yourself.
As to the parry. If he does a full parry with his LS, what he rolls adds into the base range diff, like someone doing a full dodge. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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