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Tinman
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Posts: 110
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 Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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I can say for certain that any player who wanted their character to start out with one or more Dark Side Points, especially if I thought they were trying to take advantage of the associated dice bonus (Second Edition Expanded and Revised, 141) would receive a GREAT deal of scrutiny in terms of their characters' actions whenever using Force abilities, and be well warned of the possible consequences (i.e. that they would be losing their character if they fell, and would not get the chance to play Darth-whatever.)
Non-Force Sensitive characters with Dark Side Points, on the other hand, is an interesting matter. Such a character would have either had to do something truly unspeakable, or done something seriously nasty while spending a Force Point. I've seen it happen on occasion where a GM (usually by accident rather than design) puts a character into a situation where playing the character in a realistic fashion did result in them doing something which gained them a Dark Side Point. It does occur that otherwise decent people are sometimes willing to step over certain moral lines for a strong enough set of reasons. ("This man must die, and if I have to live with a fracture in my soul for the rest of my life then so be it.") Those are rare situations in my experience though. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Per the RAW, a non-FS character can only receive a DSP by spending a FP to commit an evil act. Which, I suppose, meets the definition of "truly unspeakable and nasty" in that he was really, really trying to succeed...
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:46 am Post subject: |
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I've had to deal in game with someone wanting to play a NFS character who started with a DSP, and part of his reason for joinning the rebellion WAS his road to redemption.
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Tinman
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Per the RAW, a non-FS character can only receive a DSP by spending a FP to commit an evil act. Which, I suppose, meets the definition of "truly unspeakable and nasty" in that he was really, really trying to succeed... |
Under almost all circumstances that's correct. Presumably (and this example is used in the published rules) ordering planetary scale genocide will earn you a Dark Side Point whether you're Force-Sensitive or not. (Tarkin would have had one on his character sheet if he'd survived the battle of Yavin. I suppose it COULD be argued that he was using a Force Point when he said "You may fire when ready," but I can't imagine why he would..) I'm sure people can think of other suitably heinous things, but they're not likely to become factors in most games I would assume.
The only example I can personally recall of a non-Force Sensitive character from one of our games gaining a Dark Side Point (and this did involve a character using a Force Point in the process) involved a character background driven circumstance which the GM overlooked at the time. The group was performing an espionage operation at an Imperial sector conference, and the character in question learned that a certain star destroyer captain was at that conference and went out of his way to brutally and unexpectedly stab him to death when the man was unarmed and not in a combat situation.
What was overlooked was that the character had (in previous gaming sessions) gone out of his way to find out the name of a ship which had bombed his home settlement and killed his entire family and everyone he'd ever known before joining the Rebellion. Every star destroyer captain in the sector was at the conference, so the character found the captain of that ship and made VERY sure he ended up VERY painfully dead while looking him in the eyes when it happened. The player didn't bother to give any warning of what his character was going to do, only explained afterwards why he did it, and did not argue with the acquisition of a Dark Side Point and fully expected that. The GM (and the rest of us) were just aghast at first because we'd completely forgotten about the character background stuff involved. (Probably he also hid his motives up until the last second because he didn't want to allow for any reasonable use of GM fait to prevent it.) |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Per the RAW, a non-FS character can only receive a DSP by spending a FP to commit an evil act. Which, I suppose, meets the definition of "truly unspeakable and nasty" in that he was really, really trying to succeed... |
TO me, NFS should still be able to get DSPs even without doing evil on a FP.. just by being heinious in their acts.
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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The other night I awarded DSPs to two party members. One FS and other not. I assessed 2 DSP to the FS and 1 DSP to the non-FS. What happened? They captured some bounty hunters, tortured them by repeatedly blasting them into unconsciousness, entertaining throwing them off a 300+ meter landing pad, then decided to interrogate them by beating them, and ultimately chopping their hands off with a vibosword and using an ion manifold to cauterize the wounds. This was after being warned this would more than likely give a DSP.
Now I use a modified version called corruption. The rules are posted in a couple of spots.
So anyway, I dealt the FS an extra DSP because he was the instigator and driving force in the torture AND he was FS. The other I gave because an evil act is an evil act whether FS or non-FS. I am unfamiliar with a rule that says only FS can get DSP. That seems pretty silly to me.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:33 am Post subject: |
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So they repeatedly blasted them into KO status - imo that would have racked up one DSP right there.
Entertained the thought of tossing them off a large building, no dsp since it was not acted on.
Tortured by beating them - DSP for the FS definitely. Not so much for the NFS.
Chopped hand off then cauterized it, - both get a DSP for gratuitous injury.
So from how i read it, 4 dsps to the force sensitive, and 3 for the non force sensitive.
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:44 am Post subject: |
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I count 3 and 2 from your suggestions.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:11 am Post subject: |
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So repeatedl shooting a captive into unconsiousness then healing them up is not to you evil?
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lurker
Commander
Joined: 24 Oct 2012
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Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | So repeatedl shooting a captive into unconsiousness then healing them up is not to you evil? |
TO correct it, they had their blasters on stun. However, he would blast/stun the helpless bounty hunters BEFORE they regained consciousness, and just kept doing it over and over.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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I remember in one of the novels someone mentioning that repeated close range stun shots can cause permanent nerve damage. So using that, would have had the BH start taking actual damage after a while to represent that actual nerve damage.
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Per the RAW, a non-FS character can only receive a DSP by spending a FP to commit an evil act. Which, I suppose, meets the definition of "truly unspeakable and nasty" in that he was really, really trying to succeed... |
I don't remember ever reading this either. I just checked, and don't see anything in the RAW that says that.
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Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | I don't remember ever reading this either. I just checked, and don't see anything in the RAW that says that. |
It's not directly stated in the rules that I can find (I'm looking at 2ed.), but it's, I think, a logical conclusion from other rules.
Specifically, first, under spending and getting back Force Points, we are told that a character gets a Dark Side Point when he commits evil while spending a Force Point. Second, under Force-Sensitives, we are told, with special emphasis, that whenever a Force-sensitive character does evil, they get a Dark Side Point. Why the emphasis, if it's supposed to apply to everybody anyway?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Per the RAW, a non-FS character can only receive a DSP by spending a FP to commit an evil act. Which, I suppose, meets the definition of "truly unspeakable and nasty" in that he was really, really trying to succeed... |
I don't remember ever reading this either. I just checked, and don't see anything in the RAW that says that. |
Hmm. I could've sworn I saw that somewhere, but I just rechecked the rulebook for it and couldn't find it...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Page 84 in the section on spending force points and getting them back. It seems BY the reading that any one spending a FP to do evil (force sensitive or not) not only loses that force point but gains a DSP as well, while a little later it mentions force sensitives do so when doing evil, even if not on a FP.
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