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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:03 am Post subject: Imperial Army Vehicle Types |
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So, on the continuing theme of trying to make sense of the discrepancies in the Imperial Sourcebook, I have another question. The book lists several different vehicle types, including, wheeled, tracked, and air cushion, in addition to the known types of repulsorlifts and walkers. The various sources list walkers as "all-terrain", and say that air-cushion vehicles are used on planets where the gravity field is unstable, making repulsorlifts unviable.
And as near as I can see, that's it.
I'd like to hear the forum's opinion as to what vehicles are most suitable to what kind of terrain, or what kind of mission. The Sector Group Organization chapter essentially ignores all vehicle types apart from repulsorlift, so I'd also appreciate some input on how to incorporate non-repulsorlift vehicles into the organization.
For example, an AT-AT has the transport capacity for an entire platoon, and yet the AT-AT itself only counts as a squad or section. That means that an AT-AT equipped armor company has the capacity to haul around a full line battalion of infantry. So does that mean that an AT-AT company is actually the equivalent of a reinforced battalion, or that it must be attached to a line battalion for the AT-ATs to carry their full troop capacity?
Thoughts and ideas? _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Kirkler Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 51 Location: BC Canada
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:39 am Post subject: |
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You have to remember that AT-AT's are All Terrain Armored Transport and there for would suport a Battalion of Infantry. You would have many diffrent companys attached to the battalion with diffrent jobs. You would have a dedicated supply company, Maintance, Logistics, and truck drivers so the infantry doesn't have to haul all thier gear on thier backs when ever they deploy. I'm sure they would even have thier own cargo shuttles and pilots. A battalion is a large organization with many elements.
Does that help you a little more? _________________ Only the good die young? What about Wedge, he's good and still alive! |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: |
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No.
My point is that the Sector Group Organization chapter in the Imperial Sourcebook essentially ignores the existence of non-repulsorlift vehicles, and makes little or no provision for big vehicles like the AT-AT. The closest it comes to any sort of mechanized infantry is the repulsorlift / mobile units, which at their base seem more like the SW equivalent of a HMMWV with a fire team of troops in the truck bed. It makes no provisions for IFVs integrated with the armored units, or for very large combat transports like the Juggernaut or the AT-AT. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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jmanski Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I will have to go and read that chapter before I can offer any opinions.
Hold please.... _________________ Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe AT-Ats are considered support vehicles? Sometimes modern armies ignore the support troops for order of battle determination.
I don't recall seeing much on the flight crews who would be needed to maintain all those TIE fighters, either. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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That's one thing the Organization chapter is pretty clear on: the distinction between combat units and their attached support personnel. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14214 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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atgxtg wrote: | Maybe AT-Ats are considered support vehicles? Sometimes modern armies ignore the support troops for order of battle determination.
I don't recall seeing much on the flight crews who would be needed to maintain all those TIE fighters, either. |
It does seem strange they are not included. The Tie staff that is. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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IIRC, flight crews for TIEs is listed under the Imperial Garrison stats and capsule, either in the SW Sourcebook, or in the AJ article about garrisons. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a question for you Army vets out there. I'm interested in the organization for Mechanized units; are infantry squads assigned directly to individual IFVs, or are platoons or companies assigned to blocs of vehicles? _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14214 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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I know in the Seabees our equipment operators are not assigned a specific vehicle, just a clump of them. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | I know in the Seabees our equipment operators are not assigned a specific vehicle, just a clump of them. |
I know in the Imperial Sourcebook, a repulsorlift company has two platoons of infantry and two platoons of repulsorcraft, with one platoon of infantry assigned to each platoon of repulsorcraft. In the US Army, the only thing I can find is that M2 Bradley IFVs carry a light squad of 7 infantrymen, but I have no idea how the infantry and the vehicle are integrated organizationally. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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I would think that the vehicles would be assigned to a "motor pool" and assigned out to whoever needed them.
That way, you don't "lose" squads when the vehicles breakdown. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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That's fine, but I'm looking for specific information from someone who has been there and done that. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Gamer Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 20 May 2010 Posts: 125
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:02 am Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote: | Here's a question for you Army vets out there. I'm interested in the organization for Mechanized units; are infantry squads assigned directly to individual IFVs, or are platoons or companies assigned to blocs of vehicles? |
Yes you are assigned to the IFV and your squad leader is the track commander.
The track overwatches the squad when it is dismounted.
Modern M2 Bradley rifle companies have 14 IFVs (bradleys)
5 are officer tracks : 1 for the CO 1 for the XO and 1 for each platoon leader (3).
The other 9 IFVs (Bradleys) are for the 9 rifle squads themselves.
AT-ATs are not used as command vehicles exclusively -in ESB Gen Veers had Snow Troopers in his, so it is alot different than what we do todaywhich is also shown in the books with the garrison only having 10 AT-ATs wich carries a total of 400 troops and that doesn't really corrispond to any troop OOB.
I would also think the Juggernaught (50 troops) is the same. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16320 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Gamer wrote: | Yes you are assigned to the IFV and your squad leader is the track commander.
The track overwatches the squad when it is dismounted.
Modern M2 Bradley rifle companies have 14 IFVs (bradleys)
5 are officer tracks : 1 for the CO 1 for the XO and 1 for each platoon leader (3).
The other 9 IFVs (Bradleys) are for the 9 rifle squads themselves. |
Excellent, and thank you for your input. As a follow-up question, how are the squads equipped? I know a standard infantry squad (last time I checked) had two four-man fire teams, each with an M249, an M16/M203 and 2 M16s, plus the sergeant in command. With two less men assigned, what weapons does a Mech Infantry squad give up?
Quote: | AT-ATs are not used as command vehicles exclusively -in ESB Gen Veers had Snow Troopers in his, so it is alot different than what we do todaywhich is also shown in the books with the garrison only having 10 AT-ATs wich carries a total of 400 troops and that doesn't really corrispond to any troop OOB.
I would also think the Juggernaught (50 troops) is the same. |
True. I'm looking more at designing a repulsorlift IFV on the same scale as Imperial repulsortanks, similar to the role a Bradley plays in US Army Mechanized units.
As far as the AT-AT and Juggernaut, the TO&E in the Imperial Sourcebook puts an Imperial Army Infantry platoon at a strength of 38 men. Rather than having troops permanently assigned, like Mechanized Infantry, I see these vehicles having no organic troops assigned, and instead they operate the way USMC AmTracks do, with rifle squads assigned from the infantry units for individual missions, not on a permanent basis. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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