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ZzaphodD
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 Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: New Missile/torpedo rules.. |
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This is a combination of direct fire and fire and forget rules for missiles/torpedoes. While within space range you use the normal rules for firing with the only addition of 'target lock-on. If outside space range but within targeting range you may fire the weapon as a fire and forget weapon. The missile/torpedoe will then move at its maximum acceleration towards its target.
On top of this different torpedoes and missiles will be added, lighter/faster and heavier/slower for example.
Missiles / Torpedoes
Proton Torpedo
Scale: Starfighter
Space Range: 1/3/7
Atmosphere Range: 100/300/700
Space: 10/20/40 (all-out)
Endurance: 5 rounds
Attack Skill: 5D
Damage: 8D
(Due to low 'skill' damage was felt to be kept at nearly original level).
Concussion Missile
Space Range: 1/5/12
Atmosphere Range: 100/500/1 Km
Scale: Starfighter
Space: 15/30/60 (all-out)
Endurance: 4 rounds
Attack Skill: 6D
Damage: 6D
(Damage lowered because of deadly combination of high 'skill' with the fact that no 'shields' work against missiles/torpedoes.)
Hunter/Killer Missile
This is a faster lighter missile with better maneuverability and targeting abilities.
Space Range: 1/5/12
Atmosphere Range: 100/500/1 Km
Scale: Starfighter
Space: 18/36/72 (all-out)
Endurance: 4 rounds
Attack Skill: 7D
Damage: 5D
Launchers
Torpedo Launcher
Space Range 1/3/7
Target Range 5/25/75
Ammo 6
FC 1D
Missile Launcher
Space Range 1/5/10
Target Range 5/25/75
Ammo 5
FC 2D
Target Lock-on:
Aquiring a target lock-on is a normal action that works as firing the weapon with the following modifications. Use the 'targeting range' instead of 'space range'. Add a +5 modifier to the gunners 'to hit' roll when aquiring a lock on. After aquiring a target lock-on firing the weapon is a normal action.
When firing the weapon as a direct fire weapon (ie normal rules) the gunner may use the skill of the missile/torpedo instead of his own. Note that no MAP penalties or Fire Control dice are used if using the skill of the missile/torpedo.
When firing the weapon as a fire and forget weapon (ie the target is out of the missiles normal 'space range') the missile moves at maximum speed towards its target. When the missile/torpedo reaches its target use the skill of the weapon only when rolling to hit. If the missile misses it may turn and try again as long as it has any endurance left.
Shooting at missiles/torpedoes.
Shooting a missile works just like shooting at a starfighter. How hard it is to hit a missile depends on wether the weapon is 'in flight' on its way to the target, or 'in combat' ending up in its target space unit this round.
While in flight, shooting at a missile is only at a +5 difficulty due to the missiles small size. While 'in combat' increase the difficulty with +10 for torpedoes and +15 for missiles. This is due to the fact that the weapon is weaving and maneuvering trying to hit its target. Any hit destroyes the weapon.
I think I got everything down this time too. The rules are under construction and not written in stone. Feedback is welcome!
Last edited by ZzaphodD on Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Updated.
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jmanski
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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The Proton torpedo seems fast for my taste. Other than that, I like it.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | The Proton torpedo seems fast for my taste. Other than that, I like it. |
Since I first posted these rules I have been thinking of tying the torpedo/missile speed to the RAW ranges. A range of 7 meaning that the missile will have a Space 7 speed (Meaning 7/14/28 in the above presentation). Given the rules for hitting moving targets in the RAW its anyhow more or less impossible to hit anything moving at Space 6 or above iirc.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, the difficulties add up in RAW, but do those really make sense or were they added to keep missiles from being overpowered while keeping it simple?
I say drop the speed to 7 and drop the added difficulty, but that's me and my twisted view of the universe 
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | Yeah, the difficulties add up in RAW, but do those really make sense or were they added to keep missiles from being overpowered while keeping it simple?
I say drop the speed to 7 and drop the added difficulty, but that's me and my twisted view of the universe |
In the interests of simplifying space combat, I've been considering a missile stat that drops the speed code entirely in favor of a much higher FC, reflecting the missile's ability to track a target. If R&D develops a missile that's faster or has better tracking software or sensors, bump the FC up by +1D or something.
To avoid a homing missile, a pilot could go full evasive, and perhaps receive a bonus to dodge a missile shot. In addition, perhaps the difference in the successful evasion could be applied as a bonus to avoiding the missile's attack the next round. There could also be rules for sensor decoys and such.
Based on the official material, I get the feeling that SWU ordnance is about on par with 1st generation guided weaponry, roughly equivalent to Vietnam War era Sidewinders and Sparrows. The Sidewinder was simple and effective, and absolutely deadly at close range, while the Sparrow was effective at range against a target that couldn't maneuver well to avoid the shot, but the firing vessel had to keep a missile lock on the target.
But I digress...
My point is, the more we can simplify the stats and the more number crunching we can eliminate, the faster combat rounds move, and the more fun it all becomes. |
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jmanski
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'm all about simplicity
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: New Missile/torpedo rules.. |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Target Lock-on:
Aquiring a target lock-on is a normal action that works as firing the weapon with the following modifications. Use the 'targeting range' instead of 'space range'. Add a +5 modifier to the gunners 'to hit' roll when aquiring a lock on. After aquiring a target lock-on firing the weapon is a normal action.
When firing the weapon as a direct fire weapon (ie normal rules) the gunner may use the skill of the missile/torpedo instead of his own. Note that no MAP penalties or Fire Control dice are used if using the skill of the missile/torpedo.
When firing the weapon as a fire and forget weapon (ie the target is out of the missiles normal 'space range') the missile moves at maximum speed towards its target. When the missile/torpedo reaches its target use the skill of the weapon only when rolling to hit. If the missile misses it may turn and try again as long as it has any endurance left. |
Alternately, you could make the target lock-on a function of the ship's sensor package. Since most weapons are carried internally,it would make sense for the launching ship's targeting package to handle the initial lock-on.
Also, this could be an advantage for heavier starfighters equipped with astromechs or multiple crew, in that the astromech or the other crewmember could handle the sensor lock duties while the pilot just pilots. This is akin to the Radar Intercept Officer in the backseat of an F-14 Tomcat. There is official evidence to indicate that this is something Astromechs could do, specifically in the X-Wing novels, where Corran Horn's Whistler signals a lock-on tone to indicate a successful target lock with a proton torpedo.
There is also the distinction between semi-active homing and true fire-and-forget. First generation Sparrow radar-guided missiles required that the launching aircraft maintain a sensor lock on the target for the missile's entire flight time, which caused more than a few missed shots when a target's violent evasive maneuvers broke target lock and the missile went wild. Sidewinder heat-seeking missiles, and the AMRAAM Sparrow follow-on did away with this problem, but it might still be an issue for certain models of ordnance. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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As missiles/torpedoes in SW are not really meant to hit moving targets, I have no trouble making them avoidable, especially if you make a full dodge. As the rules stand at the top that is already the case.
What I would like to do is to make a bigger difference between torpedoes and missiles. Torpedoes could stay as they are but missiles should perhaps drop another D or so (to 6-7D or so) and get an increased range (or speed in my rules). Atm theres not much sense in having them as two types of weapons as they are so alike.
Im not too enthusiastic about automatic lock-on. Remember that the tech level in SW is very inconsistent. Actually hitting a target seems very much a manual thing in SW, this should include target lock-on. This is for most starships. Some might be equipped with especially advanced computers and targeting sensors which might do the job. However a copilot or astromech (or gunnery droid) could do the job just fine.
Im all for 'fire and forget' weapons atm, but that doesnt mean that earlier generations of weapon systems exists too.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | As missiles/torpedoes in SW are not really meant to hit moving targets, I have no trouble making them avoidable, especially if you make a full dodge. As the rules stand at the top that is already the case.
What I would like to do is to make a bigger difference between torpedoes and missiles. Torpedoes could stay as they are but missiles should perhaps drop another D or so (to 6-7D or so) and get an increased range (or speed in my rules). Atm theres not much sense in having them as two types of weapons as they are so alike. |
This is something I've put a lot of thought into, and I've considered more than a few variations. The one I keep coming back to is the idea that the designation torpedo and missile refers to the environment in which they were intended to be used. This isn't exactly borne out by the canon material, but if you look at the descriptions and images used in the essential guides, proton torpedoes are cone-shaped, while missile are more standard cylinders with guidance fins. Based on that, I've felt that torpedoes would indicate a weapon optimized for space combat, while missiles would be optimized for atmospheric combat, and that the warheads would be interchangeable depending on the mission requirements, so that it would be possible to have proton missiles and concussion torpedoes as well.
As for breaking a target lock, perhaps it could be a function of how well you roll on your full dodge. Have it be something like a wound chart, so that if you roll Ok, then you dodged the missile this time, but it still has a lock, and you will have to dodge again this round; if you rolled well, the missile lost its lock, but you are still within range of its sensors, so it has a chance to reacquire you and start all over again; if you rolled very well, the missile lost lock completely, and either self destructs or goes into auto-search mode looking for a new target. There could even be advanced moves, where you decoy a missile into running into something else, like an enemy ship.
| ZzaphodD wrote: | Im not too enthusiastic about automatic lock-on. Remember that the tech level in SW is very inconsistent. Actually hitting a target seems very much a manual thing in SW, this should include target lock-on. This is for most starships. Some might be equipped with especially advanced computers and targeting sensors which might do the job. However a copilot or astromech (or gunnery droid) could do the job just fine.
Im all for 'fire and forget' weapons atm, but that doesnt mean that earlier generations of weapon systems exists too. |
Well, there are multiple occurrences in the prequels of guided weapons. Ep.2 had Slave One's homing missiles, as well as the Hailfire droid's missiles. Ep.3 had the buzzdroid missiles that were pretty tenacious, but also pretty large...
1st. Generation guided weapons actually began to appear in WWII, mostly on the German side. One could make the observation that the Japanese kamikazes were smart missiles as well, but that's not exactly the word I would use.
The Ruhrstahl X-4 was a wire guided air-to-air missile, controlled by a joystick in the firing craft. It was designed to be used against the massed Allied bomber formations, but came into production too late to have an impact. The AGM-12 Bullpup came into service in the US around 1960, using a radio designator for guidance. Projected dead ahead of the launching aircraft, it required said aircraft to fly a straight and level course, keeping the plane's nose aimed at the desired impact point, for the entire flight time of the missile. The deficiencies of both are pretty obvious in our modern era.
An SW equivalent of a Sidewinder wouldn't be too hard to pull off. A simple missile or torpedo outfitted with a DER in the nose cone, combined with a guidance system, would allow the weapon to lock onto a target and to keep pursuing it independently.
It's the current generation of guided missiles that get truly deadly. Several modern missiles include helmet mounted sites that allow the weapons to be fired at targets outside of the forward firing arc, while true fire-and-forget weapons like the Slammer/AMRAAM are almost impossible to evade once they've locked on. Maybe these would be the kinds of weapons one might find deployed with elite front-line military units, while the rest of the pack makes do with the old stuff. |
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