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Yasriia Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 15 Aug 2010 Posts: 54
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:41 pm Post subject: Missile Weapons? Firearms? |
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While looking for some interesting weapons I found in Galladinium's Fantastic Technology (one of the very few sourcebooks I own ), that a Verpine shattergun is associated with the firearms skill.
But I found in "Galladiniums" the magna caster aswell. The magna caster is associated with the missile weapons skill
The description of both of the weapons indicate, that they use projectiles.
So I was wondering why is the magna caster a missile weapon?
Or even more general: what defines a missile weapon?
- a self-propelled projectile?
- some kind of explosives? Like grenadelaunchers
And even the wirst vac blades and the flechette smart pistol are missile weapons.
I mean all these 4 weapons inflict damage with pure kinetic energy on impact. Don't they? |
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Ankhanu Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 3089 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think more to the point, why is the Verpine Shattergun a firearm? It uses a controlled magnetic field to fire its projectile like a rail gun... it should be used under Missile Weapons as well, not Firearms.
Basically, Missile Weapons is intended to cover projectile weapons that impart velocity through a means other than a taught string (bows) or initial, external combustion (firearms). This should cover rail guns, missile launchers, grenade launchers, flachettes, rockets, compressed gas launchers, etc.
I think the reason for the confusion comes down to simple inconsistency on WEG's part... something that wasn't terribly uncommon. _________________ Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14168 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. The Shatter gun is like the Magna caster in using magnetics to propel its projectile. Ergo it should be a missile weapon like the caster.
Now one NICE weapon in the book is the Prax arms HB-4. Also a missile weapon, but fires a bullet like a firearm rifle, with a tow cable (to give it guidance) but it does so out to 8 KILOMETERS!!!! Now, hows that for 'reaching out and touching someone? _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Yasriia Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 15 Aug 2010 Posts: 54
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Ah, okay thanks. I was only thinking about rockets, due to some bad translation in my rulebook. Now I got the idea of missile weapons. |
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Gry Sarth Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004 Posts: 5304 Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:21 am Post subject: |
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I always envisioned that the difference between firearms and missile weapons is the behaviour of the ordenance. Firearms are normal guns. You fire, the "bullet" comes out instantly and very fast and speeds towards its target pretty much in a straight line. There's virtually no need to compensate for gravity or wind, etc. With missile weapons, well, the "bullet" behaves like a missile, with slower speed and moving in an arc, self propelled, with a different ignition behaviour and sometimes self-guided. Aiming it at a target requires a different mindset, compensating for gravity, movement, leading the target more, etc. _________________ "He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them." |
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Gry Sarth wrote: | Firearms are normal guns. You fire, the "bullet" comes out instantly and very fast and speeds towards its target pretty much in a straight line. There's virtually no need to compensate for gravity or wind, etc. |
My understanding is you do compensate for gravity and wind when firing a firearm. It becomes quite significant at longer ranges and at shorter ranges, unless you adjust the sights, you have to negatively compensate for gravity, i.e. shoot below where you want to hit. |
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jmanski Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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But what I think Gry is saying is that firearm means the bullet is only affected to a small degree (inches over hundreds of yards) while missile means a large degree (feet over hundreds of yards).
Which is directly related to speed. A high velocity bullet is less affected than a slow bullet. _________________ Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:47 am Post subject: |
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jmanski wrote: | But what I think Gry is saying is that firearm means the bullet is only affected to a small degree (inches over hundreds of yards) while missile means a large degree (feet over hundreds of yards).
Which is directly related to speed. A high velocity bullet is less affected than a slow bullet. |
OK I get what you are saying. But isn't that also true for blasters and lasers. Which then raises the question of why firearms and blasters are different skills, but bows, grenade launchers, and man-portable missile launchers are the same (missile) skill.
Do we assume that firearms have significantly more recoil than blasters? That might account for them being different skills to fire.
It also seems that many weapons bows, guns, blasters the shooter aims or sights in alignment with the weapon, but for thrown weapons, slings, bolos, etc. your line of sight is not aligned along the weapon. That could lead to dividing weapons into categories based on differences in how they operate.
1) Direct or indirect fire
2) Recoil is high or low
3) Firer aims along the weapon or not
Thus a blaster might be a direct fire, low recoil, aligned aimed weapon while a firearm is a direct fire, high recoil, aligned aim weapon. I doubt I will try to readjust the categories, but it is nice to at least think about why it might need a different skill to fire different weapons. |
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Ejacobs Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 183 Location: Afghanistan...Again
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:45 am Post subject: |
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My take on the reason for different skills for Firearms and Blasters is it's not just about pulling a trigger, it's also about the little things that you take for granted when using a weapon; loading, cleaning, simple operator maintenance, immediate action for misfires, remedial actions for jams, and so on. True some of those examples don't apply to blasters, but if you've only ever used blasters, and suddenly find yourself firing a slugthrower, what do you immediately do when you pull the trigger and nothing happens? That is how I explain it to myself anyways.
YMMV.
E _________________ "Somebody, just SHOOT somebody!" |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14168 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Yup. Most blasters don't even seem to have safeties... Fire arms also need to be loaded and cocked. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Bren wrote: | My understanding is you do compensate for gravity and wind when firing a firearm. It becomes quite significant at longer ranges and at shorter ranges, unless you adjust the sights, you have to negatively compensate for gravity, i.e. shoot below where you want to hit. |
Indeed you do. Hunters worry about "drop" and must aim accordingly. In fact, when a rifle7s sights are adjusted ("zeroed out") they are set for a particlar range and drop, as a bullet fires in an arc rather than a straignt line. This drop is one of the main resons why pistol ranges are so realtively short, too. For example, a bullet fired from an old (1800s) era .44 drops about 6 feet over 200 yards. So if you want to shoot someone standing 200 yards away, you would have to aim about 6 feet above the target.
This drop is the same 32ft (9.8 meters) per second per second accleration that all falling object have. So you can work out how long it will take for the shot to "fall" to the ground,aqnd then work out how far the projecticle would have travelled horizontally in that time. It is cmplicated somewhat since most proejectiles slow down due to fiction with the atmosphere, and not at the same rate, and becuase the bullet will benefit from slight amount of lift created by the projectile in flight.
Lasers would also be affected, but since lasers travel at the speed of light, the "shot" would travel over 100 thousand miles before grravity would pull it to the ground. Typically this means that the laser would probably hit somethiing or disperse long before gravirty would be a factor.
Blasters would, in theory, be like lasers, but on screen evidence would seem to indicate that blaster bolts are moving much slower than the speed of light, and more like bullets.
The reason why the use of a bow was called archery was because the reltively slow travelling arrow would require the bowman to arch his shot.
Rockets, gygets and the like differ in that they benfit from addtional force being applied to the projectile during flight. Such projecticles usually don7t begin to drop until the addtional force/engine thrust runs out. |
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