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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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 Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Bombardment won't work once the shield is up.
| Quote: | General Veers: My Lord, the fleet has moved out of lightspeed. Com Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area of the sixth planet of the Hoth System. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.
<Emphasis added> |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Captain needa.. bring our fleet into position. YOU are in charge now,, admiral needa.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Captain needa.. bring our fleet into position. YOU are in charge now,, admiral needa. |
Yeah, I love the whole promotion in the middle of the phrase. So politely evil.  |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yup. If you don't mind the whole "choke your @$$ for failure" being in Vaders fleet has one of the quickest advancement opportunities in the Imperial Navy.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Grimace wrote: | | You're making a lot of conjecture as to the "intent", which was never stated in the movie, of the overall intent of attacking the planet. |
Yes. But then most of this thread is conjecture. We are never told that the Empire ever Intended to bombard the base. THe line is just mentioned to indicate the presence of the shield generator, the destruction of which becomes the goal of the assault.
| Grimace wrote: |
From the movie, we KNOW that they couldn't bombard the planet because of the shield's strength. That's the whole point of this thread, really. Can a star destroyer drop a planetary shield? Since several star destroyers couldn't bombard the planet because of the shield over the rebel base, you can easily surmise that a single star destroyer, or even a handful of star destroyers, cannot bring down a planetary shield. |
No, you can't. THe line "defelct any bombardment" is obviously rubbish. If the rebels had such a shield then why wouldn't they use it to protect thier ships? And why didn7t the EMpire put such a shield on the exhaust port on the Death Star?
| Grimace wrote: |
Regardless if they wanted prisoners, or what their motive was, the option of bombarding the planet was ruled out because of the strength of the shield. This means that shields of that nature are at least strong enough to stand up to several star destroyers. If the shield could have been dropped by a single star destroyer, such a comment of "strong enough to withstand any bombardment" would never have been made. The attack to take out the shield generator would have never happened.
Suffice to say, the shield on Hoth (while not a planetary shield) was sufficiently powerful enough to at least stymie any bombardment from the Death Squadron and was also enough of a hinderance that a ground assault to take out the shield generator was necessitated. |
No, I consider the line to be a generalization, not a factual statment, much like the "bomb proof" bunkers of WWII, or the "unsinkable" Bismark.
It7s more conjecture on my part, but I think the EMpire could have worn down the shield with bombardment, but that in doing so they wouldn't have had any rebels left to interrogate.
THe strange thing is that the Imperials do focus on taking out the shield generator, and yet don't bombanrd the base. Once the shield is destroyed the Imperials begin sending down troops.
But how come the AT-ATs had no problem getting through the shield? And why couldn7t the Imperials do the same with assault shuttles or TIE bombers?
I don7t think there is a logical reason for it, just that Lucas wanted to show off the walkers and show them overrunning the rebels. Another case of a fast moving plot covering the plot holes.
It is just that when it comes to Roleplaying, we are stuck with no way to make sense of it. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Grimace wrote: | | Since several star destroyers couldn't bombard the planet because of the shield over the rebel base, you can easily surmise that a single star destroyer, or even a handful of star destroyers, cannot bring down a planetary shield. |
No, you can't. THe line "defelct any bombardment" is obviously rubbish. If the rebels had such a shield then why wouldn't they use it to protect thier ships? And why didn7t the EMpire put such a shield on the exhaust port on the Death Star? |
It isn't obviously rubbish.
It could be that the use of a base shield (a) uses the magnetic field of a planet for its effect and therefore cannot be put on something so small and puny as a capital ship as it does not have an intrinsic magnetic field; (b) creates stresses that require a planetary mass to absorb or anchor, a ship would be torn apart by the resulting stresses; or (c) both of the above or something else I didn't think of. Note that I am not saying my reasons are accurate, but they could be.
The Death Star exhaust port does not strengthen your argument since the exhaust port didn't need a planetary or a base shield for protection, it just needed a simple sith-spawned capital shield (or baffles, how hard is it to design baffles?). We already know that shields on a Star Destroyer can maintain an atmosphere. Cause we see ships flying in and out of a bay with people in normal uniforms. A stronger version of that was all the exhaust port needed. Apparently that was either not feasible or they just forgot. Therefore it is not a large leap of logic to assume putting a planetary shield on a two meter exhaust port was likewise not feasible or forgotten.
| atgxtg wrote: | | THe strange thing is that the Imperials do focus on taking out the shield generator, and yet don't bombanrd the base. Once the shield is destroyed the Imperials begin sending down troops. |
Actually troops went down with the Walkers. Look at a cross section of an AT-AT - it carries troops.
| atgxtg wrote: | | But how come the AT-ATs had no problem getting through the shield? And why couldn7t the Imperials do the same with assault shuttles or TIE bombers? |
Option 1) The Walkers go through in the same way that the Trade Federation tanks go through the Gungan Energy shield...rather slowly.
It seems reasonable to presume matter can pass through a shield if it moves slow enough. This would allow some level of gas exchange which would prevent a base from being starved (for oxygen) out.
Option 2) The shield is a perfect hemisphere and due to terrain it may not reach all the way to the ground in all places. The walkers came through a low point in the terrain in a sort of pass or gap beneath the shield. (This is the case in one of the Roque Squadron novels where Y-Wings blast a gap in a ring crater wall and starfighters then fly under the shield and attack the base.
Option 3) The shield is like an umbrella and there is a always a low gap around the base of the shield. I admit this seems like a dumb design, but I can't say that I understand the physics of a planetary or base shield. |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Bren,
If shields could defelct any bombardment, then it begs the question why bother designing a fleet that can bombard?
I'd say evdidence showed the Death Star did indeed need a planetary shield.
Regarding Options: THe fact reamins that the Empire had no difficulty penetrating the shield with AT-ATs. If they can do that, Tere is no reason why they couldn't load an AT-AT with explosives. Or fly a low level bomber through/under the shield.
I can't fathom why anoybody would make an shield that can withstand any bombardment, yet be easily breeched by soild matter. It would seem that solid matter bombs would be able to pass through the shield.
Your idea of a gap or weak spot at the bottom seems about the only answer. It would explain why ships and planetary shields don't have this flaw, since they are completely surreounded. If this were true about planetary shields then there might be no way to take a shielded planet.
I think there is something missing in the info given on shields. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Your idea of a gap or weak spot at the bottom seems about the only answer. It would explain why ships and planetary shields don't have this flaw, since they are completely surreounded. If this were true about planetary shields then there might be no way to take a shielded planet. |
Well the Torpedo Sphere has a fairly plausible explantion as to why it can do it. It has hundreds of scanners that analyse shields looking for a week spot and when it finds them it focuses it's torpedos onto that weakspot and and uses the momentary breach that causes to shoot the shield generators.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: |
Well the Torpedo Sphere has a fairly plausible explantion as to why it can do it. It has hundreds of scanners that analyse shields looking for a week spot and when it finds them it focuses it's torpedos onto that weakspot and and uses the momentary breach that causes to shoot the shield generators. |
Plausible as long as we assume the "defect any bombardment" statement is an exxageration.
If they are that good you'd think every major planet would have one for defense. |
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notmalcolypse
Cadet
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Farthest from the bright center of the universe.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: |
Well the Torpedo Sphere has a fairly plausible explantion as to why it can do it. It has hundreds of scanners that analyse shields looking for a week spot and when it finds them it focuses it's torpedos onto that weakspot and and uses the momentary breach that causes to shoot the shield generators. |
Plausible as long as we assume the "defect any bombardment" statement is an exxageration.
If they are that good you'd think every major planet would have one for defense. |
More logical conjecture to be argued about for no apparent reason  :
If the technology existed to make it harder for the Empire to intimidate a planet, they would undoubtedly make having and operating such a device illegal and force heavy sanctions against any planet known to have one.
The planet may not be able to be bombed, but I bet that somebody would like to get on to or off of the planet, and that's gonna be hard to do with an Imperial fleet shooting them. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Plausible as long as we assume the "defect any bombardment" statement is an exageration. |
I assumed that what they meant by "Deflect any bombardment." was "Deflect any bombardment that we can inflict." I wouldn't assume a planetary shield was everything proof or Corescaunt would not bother with the expense of have double planetary shields.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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There are really only two interpretations of 'withstand any bombardment' given the situation in the movie.
1. The shield can really withstand any bombardment.
2. The shield can withstand any bombardment availible to the Empire with the number and types of ships present.
Why planetary shields were not put onto large ships is purely speculation and not really an arguement why they wouldnt work on a planet. As we are talking about fictional technology one could dream up any reason really.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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To me the reason they won't work on cap ships are
1) the power requirements. DID YOU see the size of that shield generator??
2) Its only a Hemisphere, not a globe.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | There are really only two interpretations of 'withstand any bombardment' given the situation in the movie...
Why planetary shields were not put onto large ships is purely speculation and not really an arguement why they wouldnt work on a planet. As we are talking about fictional technology one could dream up any reason really. |
Your post is confusing. You first refer to the energy shield defending the Rebel Base and surrounding area, then go strait into talk of planetary shields. The shield in TESB was not a planetary shield.
Regarding planetary shields, I imagine that the planets would have many different shield projectors all over the planet working together. As garhkal indicated, that is way too much power and size for a ship.
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Grimace
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Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It is just that when it comes to Roleplaying, we are stuck with no way to make sense of it. |
Some people can't make sense of it. Others of us can.  |
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