| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:40 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| garhkal wrote: | I am with Z.. that write up seems to entail that Partical shiels are part of your hull code.
Now as a q.. would it be just your gunnry, or tactics (or some other skill) to try and time your missile shot at someone to when they have to drop theirs (momentarily) for launching their own missiles/fighters/torps? |
Perhaps this is important vs capital ships, and then I assume timing when they launch fighters would be possible.
Given missiles heavy damage with smaller ships your only problem is actually hitting them (with that speed penalty to hit with missiles and all).
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | I am with Z.. that write up seems to entail that Partical shiels are part of your hull code.
Now as a q.. would it be just your gunnry, or tactics (or some other skill) to try and time your missile shot at someone to when they have to drop theirs (momentarily) for launching their own missiles/fighters/torps? |
Perhaps this is important vs capital ships, and then I assume timing when they launch fighters would be possible.
Given missiles heavy damage with smaller ships your only problem is actually hitting them (with that speed penalty to hit with missiles and all). |
However, I would assume that only a small part of the shield must be dropped, or that new starships have some technology that manages the 'hole' in the shields. Perhaps you have to fire right up into the hangar launching the fighters.. Very difficult but effective if you manage to hit 'inside' the ship... 
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tusk BloodFlail wrote: | [color=green]Wow, okay. So in your estimation bullets, which are seemingly unable to be stopped by shields, were traded in for lasers which are easily defended by shields. Yeah that makes perfect sense.
I wonder why ships are equipped with blasters instead of a high caliber bullet then? |
Just look at space ranges and speeds to begin with. You wouldnt hit anything that wasnt stationary with bullets at any range beyond point blank.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tusk BloodFlail wrote: | | One last thing. When you read under star ship weapons Ion Cannons specifically say they bypass shields, and tractor beams specifically say that they are only opposed by the HULL. Missiles say nothing about bypassing shields. |
To beging with Ion weapons and Tractor weapons ar ENERGY weapons, and in my quoted rules it says that the shields you 'raise' are ENERGY shields. As particle shields are part of hull, also mentioned in the quoted rules if in a backward manner, they dont need to mention that missiles bypass the ENERGY shields.
But of course, the question is academic. We all play our own games as we wish. What the rules 'officially' says is of little importance really, just play it how you like.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tusk BloodFlail wrote: | [color=green]Wow, okay. So in your estimation bullets, which are seemingly unable to be stopped by shields, were traded in for lasers which are easily defended by shields. Yeah that makes perfect sense.
I wonder why ships are equipped with blasters instead of a high caliber bullet then?
It is apparent we must agree to disagree. |
Is that to me?
| Quote: | | (with that speed penalty to hit with missiles and all). |
it is strange missiles/torps have this mod, but character scale grenades, missiles or any other projectile don't.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tusk BloodFlail
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Gamorr
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is Madness!
Flinches and waits for King Leonidas to kick me into the pit
_________________
You should not fear your enemies, they should fear you! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | it is strange missiles/torps have this mod, but character scale grenades, missiles or any other projectile don't. |
Its a weird rule to begin with. Please note that the penalty is based on the Space rating of the target, not how fast it is actually moving, or even if its even trying to evade the missiles. Hitting a 350m Carrack class light cruiser is no picknick with a +20 difficulty which more or less even out the scale bonus. BTW, the same applies to a Imperial Star Destroyer even though it has 1D less in Maneuverability as the threshold for +20 difficulty is Space 6.
Regarding the Particle shields. A ship with 1D+2 hull, does it have a -1 pip negative hull rating when resisting physical damage? 
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tusk BloodFlail
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Gamorr
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Looks up at the light....
OMG, I'm already in the pit! How did he do that? 
_________________
You should not fear your enemies, they should fear you! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | it is strange missiles/torps have this mod, but character scale grenades, missiles or any other projectile don't. |
Its a weird rule to begin with. Please note that the penalty is based on the Space rating of the target, not how fast it is actually moving, or even if its even trying to evade the missiles. Hitting a 350m Carrack class light cruiser is no picknick with a +20 difficulty which more or less even out the scale bonus. BTW, the same applies to a Imperial Star Destroyer even though it has 1D less in Maneuverability as the threshold for +20 difficulty is Space 6.
Regarding the Particle shields. A ship with 1D+2 hull, does it have a -1 pip negative hull rating when resisting physical damage? |
So should that mod be ignored unless it is actually speeding away? Would a ship just dodging by doing the funky monkey in the same spot (well, looping swirlig etc in one "hex") be counted as having a high speed?
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
The SW space particle shields and missile rules have always seemed a bit off to me, though I am not sure what an appropriate fix should be.
Part of my difficulty is in deciding what the goal should be. Should missiles and torpedoes be primarily designed:
1) to do a lot of damage to essentially stationary targets similar to real world (RW) bombs.
2) as cruise missile-like weapons that do a lot of damage but can't easily hit rapidly moving targets.
3) as fast moving (relative to ship speeds) anti-ship weapons that home in on a target with target seeking software.
4) as weapons that do additional damage by ignoring energy shields.
The way the rules are written, it seems WEG invisioned them as 1+2 with a bit of 4. I suppose I prefer a rewrite that allows for different types of missiles/torps that perform the various functions. Possibly using the exisiting high-damage stats for 1+2 type missiles/torps and a different (lower damage) set of stats for type 3 missiles/torps.
But it seems the speed bonus against cruise-missile like weapons should be for relative difference in speed. If one ship is chasing another and fires missiles, the important variables would seem to be the difference in speed (which could be minimal, zero, or even negative) and the maneuverability of the target. Not the fact that the target is moving fast. Also, if the target is moving towards the missile it would seem like it would not make it harder to hit the target.
Just my thoughts... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
In which case we would know what the speed is for concussion missiles and proton torpeedos
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | In which case we would know what the speed is for concussion missiles and proton torpeedos |
I came up with this before.
| Quote: |
This is a combination of direct fire and fire and forget rules for missiles/torpedoes. While within space range you use the normal rules for firing with the only addition of 'target lock-on. If outside space range but within targeting range you may fire the weapon as a fire and forget weapon. The missile/torpedoe will then move at its maximum acceleration towards its target.
On top of this different torpedoes and missiles will be added, lighter/faster and heavier/slower for example.
Proton Torpedo
Scale: Starfighter
Space Range: 1/3/7
Atmosphere Range: 100/300/700
Space: 10/20/40 (all-out)
Endurance: 5 rounds
Attack Skill: 4D
Damage: 8D
(Due to low 'skill' damage was felt to be kept at nearly original level).
Concussion Missile
Space Range: 1/5/12
Atmosphere Range: 100/500/1 Km
Scale: Starfighter
Space: 15/30/60 (all-out)
Endurance: 4 rounds
Attack Skill: 6D
Damage: 6D
(Damage lowered because of deadly combination of high 'skill' with the fact that no 'shields' work against missiles/torpedoes.)
Torpedo Launcher
Space Range 1/3/7
Target Range 5/15/35
Ammo 6
FC 1D
Missile Launcher
Space Range 1/5/10
Target Range 5/25/50
Ammo 5
FC 2D
Target Lock-on:
Aquiring a target lock-on is a normal action that works as firing the weapon with the following modifications. Use the 'targeting range' instead of 'space range'. Add a +5 modifier to the gunners 'to hit' roll when aquiring a lock on. After aquiring a target lock-on firing the weapon is a normal action.
When firing the weapon as a direct fire weapon (ie normal rules) the gunner may use the skill of the missile/torpedo instead of his own. Note that no MAP penalties or Fire Control dice are used if using the skill of the missile/torpedo.
When firing the weapon as a fire and forget weapon (ie the target is out of the missiles normal 'space range') the missile moves at maximum speed towards its target. When the missile/torpedo reaches its target use the skill of the weapon only when rolling to hit. If the missile misses it may turn and try again as long as it has any endurance left.
Shooting at missiles/torpedoes.
Shooting a missile works just like shooting at a starfighter. How hard it is to hit a missile depends on wether the weapon is 'in flight' on its way to the target, or 'in combat' ending up in its target space unit this round.
While in flight, shooting at a missile is only at a +5 difficulty due to the missiles small size. While 'in combat' increase the difficulty with +10 for torpedoes and +15 for missiles. This is due to the fact that the weapon is weaving and maneuvering trying to hit its target. Any hit destroyes the weapon.
|
This was a 'short hand' post from the house rules forum, as the first post was swallowed by the forum never to appear again... But I think I got all the important stuff in there..
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I remember that, but i was more thinking of the regular missiles/torps..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | I remember that, but i was more thinking of the regular missiles/torps.. |
Just remove the 'homing' function.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | ...Target Lock-on:
Aquiring a target lock-on is a normal action that works as firing the weapon with the following modifications. Use the 'targeting range' instead of 'space range'. Add a +5 modifier to the gunners 'to hit' roll when aquiring a lock on. After aquiring a target lock-on firing the weapon is a normal action....
Shooting at missiles/torpedoes.
Shooting a missile works just like shooting at a starfighter. How hard it is to hit a missile depends on wether the weapon is 'in flight' on its way to the target, or 'in combat' ending up in its target space unit this round.
While in flight, shooting at a missile is only at a +5 difficulty due to the missiles small size. While 'in combat' increase the difficulty with +10 for torpedoes and +15 for missiles. This is due to the fact that the weapon is weaving and maneuvering trying to hit its target. Any hit destroyes the weapon. |
Nice ZzaphodD! I'd probably use the dumb version (no attack skill) with the WEG damage and the higher skill/lower damage versions for the "seeker" missiles/torpedoes.
Two quibbles or clarifications:
(1) for target lock it seems like the missile/torp should not have a targeting range exceeding the attacking ships sensor range. Otherwise you would be able to lock onto a vessel that you couldn't actually see. Which seems strange.
(2) When shooting down a missile, it seems that a scale modifier would apply (which would make a missile harder to hit than a ship). Possibly treat missiles/torps as one scale lower than the firing ship, e.g. capital missiles/torps are treated as starfighter scale, starfighter missiles/torps are treated as walker scale. I realize that the missiles aren't as large as a next scale lower vehicle, but I assume the propulsion system is sufficiently powerful to register as that scale object. Also from a game mechanics POV if the scale is too much lower, you can't shoot down an incoming missile. Which is uninteresting. It might also make sense to allow smart missiles/torps to use their attack skill as a dodge as they close on the target, since they may be programmed for an evasive course as they close. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
