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Tusk BloodFlail
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Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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Location: Gamorr
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 Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: Handheld Sensors |
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Does anyone know where to find rules on handheld sensors? There are plenty of such sensors for sale, but a complete lack of rules for them. What are they opposed with? Sneak? Hide? Sensors? What adds to the DC, being behind objects? There is decent enough info on ship sensors but land based sensors are another story. Any help would be appreciated 
In fact, I have really only found that the "Gotal Electromagnetic Scanner" provides any rules, but it seems rather powerful to me. Just a single difficult sensor roll and you can detect all living things in 100 meters 
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Handheld Sensors |
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| Tusk BloodFlail wrote: | Does anyone know where to find rules on handheld sensors? There are plenty of such sensors for sale, but a complete lack of rules for them. What are they opposed with? Sneak? Hide? Sensors? What adds to the DC, being behind objects? There is decent enough info on ship sensors but land based sensors are another story. Any help would be appreciated
In fact, I have really only found that the "Gotal Electromagnetic Scanner" provides any rules, but it seems rather powerful to me. Just a single difficult sensor roll and you can detect all living things in 100 meters |
I have to say that this has bugged me several times. We have a 'techie' that always runs around with a life detector (among other things), I cant keep saying that the metal in the surroundings keep interfering with his sensor.. 
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Raven Redstar
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| It's versus sneak. If whatever is trying to avoid being detected. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Take a look at the Equipment Book posted by Gry Sarth. The sensors and scanners sections give many examples of equipment.
Some units allow a roll of sensors vs. a set difficulty, some give a bonus to the sensors roll, some have a separate search skill that is rolled by the equipment. It kind of varies. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Yup.. but otherwise Raven is on the ball.. sneak versus their sensors roll.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10395
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Handheld Sensors |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Tusk BloodFlail wrote: | | I have really only found that the "Gotal Electromagnetic Scanner" provides any rules, but it seems rather powerful to me. Just a single difficult sensor roll and you can detect all living things in 100 meters |
I have to say that this has bugged me |
Me too. I haven't restatted the Gotal yet to something more reasonable because they haven't ever appeared in me game and it is just easier to not promote them as a playable PC species. No player has asked to play one and I gues that'lll be th emoment I may have to come up with something.
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | We have a 'techie' that always runs around with a life detector (among other things) |
What, does this guy think he is, Mr. Spock with a tricorder? 8) Handheld scanners did appear in TESB on Hoth but it seemed a bit bulky with antennae sticking out so not very practical to use on a regular basis in the Star Wars RPG. If a player wanted to do that in my game anyway, I would probably make them extremely expensive to further deter their use in common adventuring because it just doesn't seem that Star Warsy.
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Tusk BloodFlail
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Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Gamorr
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I agree with you Whill, but as people are saying its simply a Sensors vs. Sneak so if thats the case all it really does is give players with higher mechanical and lower perception a better way to find hidden characters and is not that disruptive.
This is star wars, I'm sure a character could simply buy some sort of personal sensor masking equipment to hide themselves from that, or even to the opposite and get some sort of equipment that creates extra false readings making them think there are a lot of life forms 
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Handheld Sensors |
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| Whill wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Tusk BloodFlail wrote: | | I have really only found that the "Gotal Electromagnetic Scanner" provides any rules, but it seems rather powerful to me. Just a single difficult sensor roll and you can detect all living things in 100 meters |
I have to say that this has bugged me |
Me too. I haven't restatted the Gotal yet to something more reasonable because they haven't ever appeared in me game and it is just easier to not promote them as a playable PC species. No player has asked to play one and I gues that'lll be th emoment I may have to come up with something.
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | We have a 'techie' that always runs around with a life detector (among other things) |
What, does this guy think he is, Mr. Spock with a tricorder? 8) Handheld scanners did appear in TESB on Hoth but it seemed a bit bulky with antennae sticking out so not very practical to use on a regular basis in the Star Wars RPG. If a player wanted to do that in my game anyway, I would probably make them extremely expensive to further deter their use in common adventuring because it just doesn't seem that Star Warsy. |
What has bugged me is not the Gotal sensor, even though by what written above it seems very powerful, its the lack of decent rules for 'character scale' sensors that bugs me.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Tusk BloodFlail wrote: | I agree with you Whill, but as people are saying its simply a Sensors vs. Sneak so if thats the case all it really does is give players with higher mechanical and lower perception a better way to find hidden characters and is not that disruptive.
This is star wars, I'm sure a character could simply buy some sort of personal sensor masking equipment to hide themselves from that, or even to the opposite and get some sort of equipment that creates extra false readings making them think there are a lot of life forms |
Sensors vs Sneak is also a very stupid rule. Perhaps if the 'sneaker' knows he is beeing scanned for and also know how to take precautions (using terrain that interferes with the sensors for example).
From the rulebook.
| Quote: |
Sensor Packs
Sensor packs are portable scanning devices that can
detect life-forms, energy emissions, tectonic instability and
any number of other phenomena. Most sensor packs are
handheld devices that are fairly bulky; more sensitive apparatus
must often be handled by two or more people.
Smaller sensor packs are only capable of detecting a
single phenomenon (such as a comm signal or life-form); the
more functions the sensor pack is required to perform, the
larger the unit tends to be. Most handheld sensor packs are
only capable of giving general information about what has
been detected (such as the general direction and frequency
of a comm signal, or the relative distance to a life-form) but
cannot give precise data. Larger units tend to be more
accurate — and more sensitive — but are also more expensive.
• Sensor Pock
Model: NeuroSaav 8932/D Sensor Pack
Type: Portable scanning device
Skill: Sensors
Cost: 650
Availability: 2, R
Game Notes: The NeuroSaav 8932/D is a general-purpose sensor
apparatus that can detect either the presence of a life form, or
the presence of a comm signal. Characters using the unit receive
a +1D bonus to sensors. The device can scan up to 300 meters
away, and will give approximate bearings to the source of a
comm transmission or to the location of a life form. |
So, a handheld device can look for, for example life forms, up to 300 meters away and also gives a +1D bonus to the Sensors skill. This is why I think better rules for using sensors, or at least guidlines, would be a good thing.
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Tusk BloodFlail
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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With concern to ships "Sensors" is opposed by "Sensors" so I kinda felt characters should operate in the same manner, but many people have told me that it is opposed by "Sneak" when used as character vs. character. I would then use the argument
"So a lion would have a really good sneak skill and thus would be very difficult to detect with sensors." and of course everyone just gives me blank stares.
I'm really leaning towards having it operate as Sensors vs. Sensors. Even if the hiding character has no equipment to hide himself his knowledge of Sensors would be what he used to hide himself from them. Not his sneak.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:34 am Post subject: Re: Handheld Sensors |
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| Whill wrote: |
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | We have a 'techie' that always runs around with a life detector (among other things) |
What, does this guy think he is, Mr. Spock with a tricorder? 8) Handheld scanners did appear in TESB on Hoth but it seemed a bit bulky with antennae sticking out so not very practical to use on a regular basis in the Star Wars RPG. If a player wanted to do that in my game anyway, I would probably make them extremely expensive to further deter their use in common adventuring because it just doesn't seem that Star Warsy. |
And also, if he is actively running around looking at a sensor unit pinging away
1) he is NOT paying attention to where the heck he is going, so suffers minuses to avoid traps, ambushes and running checks
2) is NOT going to be sneaky as he is activel sending out sensor waves.
3) is pretty much going to lose initiative in combat as he has to drop the sensor draw a weapon then he can shoot...
| Quote: | This is star wars, I'm sure a character could simply buy some sort of personal sensor masking equipment to hide themselves from that, or even to the opposite and get some sort of equipment that creates extra false readings making them think there are a lot of life forms Twisted Evil
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There are very few things out there that mask you from sensors, and most are either A) bulky/energy hogs, or B) expensive as heck.
| Quote: | | I'm really leaning towards having it operate as Sensors vs. Sensors. Even if the hiding character has no equipment to hide himself his knowledge of Sensors would be what he used to hide himself from them. Not his sneak. |
Hows about yu cannot roll more d in sneak than you have in sensors.
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Tusk BloodFlail
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Hows about yu cannot roll more d in sneak than you have in sensors. |
I don't like that either. You could know a lot about sensors and not be sneaky, and vise versa. I think over all the best way to go is sensor masking equipment if the players are that concerned about it.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Tusk BloodFlail wrote: | | Quote: | | Hows about yu cannot roll more d in sneak than you have in sensors. |
I don't like that either. You could know a lot about sensors and not be sneaky, and vise versa. I think over all the best way to go is sensor masking equipment if the players are that concerned about it. |
But this rule limits the number of dice rolled to the lowest of the two. So a sneaky character with little knowledge of sensors will just roll his sensor dice (=few), and a 'techie' with sensor knowledge but who know nothing about sneaking (using terrain to ones own advantage) will also roll just his few sneak dice.
I actually like this rule, if want to use sneak at all that is. Another idea is tho have the Sneak/Sensor (use lowest) rule modify the searchers Sensor difficulty, that is a high roll will not be the actual difficulty but modify a set difficulty based on range and environments.
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:16 am Post subject: |
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What about each difficulty level you roll with sneak, gives a +3 difficulty to the sensor operator's difficulty?
So even with a 31 you're only penalizing the operator by 18.
A skilled sensor operator may still be able to overcome that, or someone with really state of the art equipment.
The problem with sensor equipment, is that it doesn't identify, and you might pick up distance to a life form, but not necessarily the exact location of it. Like in Aliens "We're right on top of it!" Whoever is out there still needs to actually spot the person or critter. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Handheld Sensors |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Whill wrote: |
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | We have a 'techie' that always runs around with a life detector (among other things) |
What, does this guy think he is, Mr. Spock with a tricorder? 8) Handheld scanners did appear in TESB on Hoth but it seemed a bit bulky with antennae sticking out so not very practical to use on a regular basis in the Star Wars RPG. If a player wanted to do that in my game anyway, I would probably make them extremely expensive to further deter their use in common adventuring because it just doesn't seem that Star Warsy. |
And also, if he is actively running around looking at a sensor unit pinging away
1) he is NOT paying attention to where the heck he is going, so suffers minuses to avoid traps, ambushes and running checks
2) is NOT going to be sneaky as he is activel sending out sensor waves.
3) is pretty much going to lose initiative in combat as he has to drop the sensor draw a weapon then he can shoot...
| Quote: | This is star wars, I'm sure a character could simply buy some sort of personal sensor masking equipment to hide themselves from that, or even to the opposite and get some sort of equipment that creates extra false readings making them think there are a lot of life forms Twisted Evil
|
There are very few things out there that mask you from sensors, and most are either A) bulky/energy hogs, or B) expensive as heck.
| Quote: | | I'm really leaning towards having it operate as Sensors vs. Sensors. Even if the hiding character has no equipment to hide himself his knowledge of Sensors would be what he used to hide himself from them. Not his sneak. |
Hows about yu cannot roll more d in sneak than you have in sensors. |
1) Yeah, of course, if hes constantly looking at the screen. MAPs take care of that, just like in starship combat where sensor operation is more common.
2) This of course assumes someone is looking for him using sensors (which of course also sends out sensor waves).
3) Like using any other device instead of the weapon. However, there are other characters who can keep overwatch with weapon in hand.
-There are a few armours that raise the difficulty for sensors to find the wearer.
What we need is similar rules for character scale sensors as the starship sensor rules. This means sensor modes (are we sending 'sensor waves' out or not), and different ranges based on this. Edit: I see in Galladrium and Rule of Engagement that sensors in those books mostly have different sensor ranges (short, med, long). The below example can be used to convert senors with one set range into short/med/long. It also introduces the scan, active and search idea.
For example:
Model: NeuroSaav 8932/D Sensor Pack
Type: Portable scanning device
Skill: Sensors
Cost: 650
Availability: 2, R
Ranges:
Passive: 25/50/75m/-
Scan: 50/100150m/-
Search: 100/200/300m/+1D
Focus: 10m/+2D
Game Notes: The NeuroSaav 8932/D is a general-purpose sensor
apparatus that can detect either the presence of a life form, or
the presence of a comm signal. Characters using the unit receive
a +1D bonus to sensors(now included in the above range stats). The device can scan up to 300 meters
away, and will give approximate bearings to the source of a
comm transmission or to the location of a life form.
These are the basic difficulties from the rulebook. How would these work in character scale? Obviously one would need more specific environment and cover rules. The below difficulties are the actual difficulties to even see at all in starship movement/combat (visual ranges being rather shorter). In character scale sensor ranges are actually lower than visual range, if sensors can not 'see' through cover for example.
| Code: | Sensor Mode Detect Identify
Passive Moderate Very Difficult
Scan Easy Moderate
Search Easy Difficult
Focus V. Easy Easy |
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Last edited by ZzaphodD on Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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