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atgxtg
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 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: Ship (and Vehicle) Contruction Guide |
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I been looking at D6 Ships and reverse engineering and reconstructing some of the rules to make it simpler and a better fit for Star Wars, a closer match to what in in GG6: Tramp Freighters, with the goal of making a construction guide for building starships (and hopefully) other types of vehicles.
I've got it at the stage where it works, but I am tweaking the numbers to get the ship costs to match up (the YT-1300 is a bit over).
While it's still early are there things that people would like to see in a construction guide, or things that they don't want to see? |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Another trick is to not pay to much attention to matching costs.
An YT1300 has been manufacturend in countless numbers, making costs drop as low as they can. The same can be said, in different degrees, about most ships. So as long as the generated costs are higher than the RAW ships, we should be fine.. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just shooting for ballpark figures. If I can get a YT-1300 in at 90-110K I can live with it. But 145K was a bit much. Now I got it down to 103K, which should work okay. Even better with a modifier for mass production.
I just want to avoid any cut rate designs, or having A-Wings cost 6o megacredits or some such. |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Someone else had done a starship construction guide. From what I understand it came out to be pretty accurate. Are you looking at that at all?
BTW, is the ships book in the OGL free book downloads?
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Someone else had done a starship construction guide. From what I understand it came out to be pretty accurate. Are you looking at that at all? |
Which one? I think I have two or three and they are not entirely compatible. The one I can remember used a system similar to the one used in the D20 construction guide, and it wasn't too bad.
What I hope to bring to the table here is something that can be used not just for designing ships but for modifying them. For example, replacing the engines or shields on a Subla Ransom Cargo Hauler or even for a bulk freighter.
And I hope to expand this to work for all types of vehicles, not just starships, so people can design their own speeders or capital ships, or even use it to adapt/covert real world vehicles into the RPG.
| cheshire wrote: |
BTW, is the ships book in the OGL free book downloads? |
Yeah, at least on DriveThruRPG. THat and about a dozen other things. The full list includes:
Septimus (full game and quickstart)
D6 Fantasy Locations
D6 Space
D6 Adventure
D6 Space Ships
D6 Fantasy
D6 Adventure Locations
D6 Fantasy Creatures |
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Doomhead
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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They are also available on http://www.rpgnow.com/, I think they are part of DrivethuRPG
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Also, please stay away from 'construction' points and similar. It becomes so abstract its no fun anymore..
I once made a starship construction system for another game, mechanically based on the old Car Wars vehicle construction rules from the 80s. It was a bit simplistic, but very manageable.. I dont have it around anymore though.. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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No CPs. It works in tons, credits and Energy Units, and I might drop the EUs.
The way I've got it working is:
Step 1: Pick a concept/function for the ship.
Step 2: Select a tonnage (with some example ships as benchmarks to help out)
Step 3: Pick Engines, Maneuverability, Shields and other mass dependent systems A ship that is twice the tonnage of a YT-1300 needs engines twice as big and twice as expensive to move at the same Space speed. (That's why I do tonnage first).
Step 4: Select Cargo Tonnage (add about 5% as a buffer in case the ship goes a little over the designed mass. That way any overage can come off the cargo capacity, rather than requiring bigger engines).
Step 5: Select Crew/Passengers, Sensors,Weapon Systems, Consumables and other assorted junk.
Step 6: Total up the power requirments and buy a generator.
Step 7: total up the mass.
Step 8: Take half that for the mass of hull. Look that up on the table or use log(hull mass in kg)x5+1 to get the basic hull rating in pips (character scale).
Step 9: Add armor to raise the Hull rating, if desired.
Step 10: Total up the final mass and cost.
I could take Step 8 out and just use log(Ship mass/3)x5+1 to get the hull rating.
It gets a little more complicated if you start designing your own laser cannons, sensors or such, but that is basically how it works. You just pick what you want and add the mass, energy requirements and cost to the running total. |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Neat. I can't wait to see the finished product.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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Praxian
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Joined: 30 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:02 am Post subject: Re: Ship (and Vehicle) Contruction Guide |
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| atgxtg wrote: | I been looking at D6 Ships and reverse engineering and reconstructing some of the rules to make it simpler and a better fit for Star Wars, a closer match to what in in GG6: Tramp Freighters, with the goal of making a construction guide for building starships (and hopefully) other types of vehicles.
I've got it at the stage where it works, but I am tweaking the numbers to get the ship costs to match up (the YT-1300 is a bit over).
While it's still early are there things that people would like to see in a construction guide, or things that they don't want to see? |
I think this would be neat, and wish that WEG had done some similar stuff while they had the licence.
One of the things that you could think about using would be the "Mechwarrior" style of constructing a ship. They were (iirc) based off of tonnage and worked pretty well (and wasn't horribly hard to figure out).
Things I'd like to see:
Buying weapons from the "factory" with augmented damages (a Heavy Ion cannon with 6D damage and 3D Acc ex.).
A better way of upgrading ships. Maybe instead of "Upgrading this is ships price x [insert number here]", it's something different. Also, a way of some sort to figure out what the "Core Ship" is once you strip it of everything that would make it "special" (weapons, hyperdrive, etc.).
And lastly, various sensor packages. The military should've always had a an amazing arsenal of everything from sensors to weapons and this, that, and the other. But in everything I always say the sensors were always eh - maybe (imo).
Anyways, I know it's a lot, but hey, if you are open to opinions I'm happy to help out! =D
Edit: I just remembered, Mechwarrior has changed hands so many times... lol. When I mentioned them, I was referring to similar rules to the Fasa way of doing it (never got into Mechwarrior by Wizkids or whoever owned them before wizkids). |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | I'm just shooting for ballpark figures. If I can get a YT-1300 in at 90-110K I can live with it. But 145K was a bit much. Now I got it down to 103K, which should work okay. Even better with a modifier for mass production.
I just want to avoid any cut rate designs, or having A-Wings cost 6o megacredits or some such. |
Isnt the RAW cost 125000? In that case 145K is a lot better than 103K IMO. Consider that the system will build ONE ship and even 145K is probably also to low. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | No CPs. It works in tons, credits and Energy Units, and I might drop the EUs.
The way I've got it working is:
Step 1: Pick a concept/function for the ship.
Step 2: Select a tonnage (with some example ships as benchmarks to help out)
Step 3: Pick Engines, Maneuverability, Shields and other mass dependent systems A ship that is twice the tonnage of a YT-1300 needs engines twice as big and twice as expensive to move at the same Space speed. (That's why I do tonnage first).
Step 4: Select Cargo Tonnage (add about 5% as a buffer in case the ship goes a little over the designed mass. That way any overage can come off the cargo capacity, rather than requiring bigger engines).
Step 5: Select Crew/Passengers, Sensors,Weapon Systems, Consumables and other assorted junk.
Step 6: Total up the power requirments and buy a generator.
Step 7: total up the mass.
Step 8: Take half that for the mass of hull. Look that up on the table or use log(hull mass in kg)x5+1 to get the basic hull rating in pips (character scale).
Step 9: Add armor to raise the Hull rating, if desired.
Step 10: Total up the final mass and cost.
I could take Step 8 out and just use log(Ship mass/3)x5+1 to get the hull rating.
It gets a little more complicated if you start designing your own laser cannons, sensors or such, but that is basically how it works. You just pick what you want and add the mass, energy requirements and cost to the running total. |
Nah, dont drop the EU. It opens up for different options and tactics like 'all power to the rear deflector shields' which are not really availible today. Also, with a damaged ship, power drops and the crew has to prioratize (is that a word in english? It is in swedish) what systems to run.
I would also add Power core to the list of ship components.
Darn I hade a lot of different options for ships made up years ago(I think 5 different versions of armor, lots of engines, etc). To bad both all my SW books and papers are gone, and the digital version disappeared in a HD swap over the years. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Ship (and Vehicle) Contruction Guide |
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[quote="Praxian"]
One of the things that you could think about using would be the "Mechwarrior" style of constructing a ship. They were (iirc) based off of tonnage and worked pretty well (and wasn't horribly hard to figure out). | Quote: |
I think you'll like this then. The only hard bit are the engines and shields, as thier tonnage and cost vary with the mass of the ship. A ship that is twice the mass needs engines that are twice as big and twice as expensive (maybe more that twice as expensive). But I have it so you select a tonnage first, then fill out the ship rather than stack on compnents as they do in D6 Space make that easy. You just multiply the ship's tonnage by a number for the drive type.A Space 4 drive is 4%.
[quote="Praxian"]
Things I'd like to see:
Buying weapons from the "factory" with augmented damages (a Heavy Ion cannon with 6D damage and 3D Acc ex.). |
Try the following table. I reverse engineered the weapons table in Tramp Freighters. AFAIK this will match up with TF. I wouldn't use it for more that +3D dmage though,otherwise turbolasers don't make sense. I am thiking of doubling the cost for each die over +3D. So a laser that does +4D damage cost 3000Cr (without fire control), +5D damage 5,000 and so on. I got to check with the turoblaser stats to see if that is enough.
Laser Cannon (basic) 0D 2D 500Cr 2t
Increased Damage +1D +500Cr +0.67mt
Ion Cannon (basic) 0D 1D 250Cr 0.5t
Increased Damage +1D +250Cr x2
Fire Control (All Weapons)
+1 pip 167Cr
+2 pip 333Cr
1D 500Cr
2D 1000
3D 1500
4D 2000
| Praxian wrote: |
A better way of upgrading ships. Maybe instead of "Upgrading this is ships price x [insert number here]", it's something different. Also, a way of some sort to figure out what the "Core Ship" is once you strip it of everything that would make it "special" (weapons, hyperdrive, etc.). |
Well, with what I have, you can upgrade a ship by swapping out components. Changing engines, shields, and so on for better ones. It also sscales up for captial ships (the Ion Drive on an ISD weighs in a 76,800 tons and costs 128,025 credits), and down for fighters and even smaller vehciles. I hipe to be able to make speeder bikes with this.
With this system you could strip a ship down to it's component's, or even just the empty hull.
| Praxian wrote: |
And lastly, various sensor packages. The military should've always had a an amazing arsenal of everything from sensors to weapons and this, that, and the other. But in everything I always say the sensors were always eh - maybe (imo). |
Right now they are still sort of eh, but there is room for improvement. The way I work it now, sensors are rated by range, and enhancements. Any neat new sensor fuction/package could work under the enhancements. I'll give an example:
A range 40 sensor would come with a Search range of 40. Scan range would be half that for 20, and Passive Range would be a quarter of the Search range for 10. So it would be 10/20/40. Focus Starts at 1. THe Sensors's base weight is 1/4 of it's rating (of equal to it's default Passive range)
Sesnor bonus starts at 0D for passive, 1D for Sscan, 2D Search, and 3D Focus.
Enhanments: Raising the range of Search or Scan by 5 adds 1 ton. Raising Passive by 5 costs 2 tons, and raising Focus by 1 costs 1 ton.
Upping the Sensor Bonus: +1 pip increases the cost and EU requirements by by 25%, +2 pips by 50%, and +1D by double. +2D by triple. Just improving one rating (Search, Scan) would cost less (say 1./3rd). Upping Passive probably costs twice the others.
| Praxian wrote: |
Anyways, I know it's a lot, but hey, if you are open to opinions I'm happy to help out! =D |
Great! That is why I started this thread. To get ideas an opinions. I'd like this to be useful to the people here, and I want to make sure I'm going in a direction that people will like. So for the feedback is encouraging.
I'll see about editing my notes to make them comprehensible, and making a rough draft available for people to look over, critique, and offer improvements on.
| Praxian wrote: |
Edit: I just remembered, Mechwarrior has changed hands so many times... lol. When I mentioned them, I was referring to similar rules to the Fasa way of doing it (never got into Mechwarrior by Wizkids or whoever owned them before wizkids). |
Me neither. When I played it, it was called Battledroids, and was even simpler than what it evolved into. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
Nah, dont drop the EU. It opens up for different options and tactics like 'all power to the rear deflector shields' which are not really available today. |
You mean adding an aux power rule like they have in Star Warriors? That might be nice. There is a boost system option in D6 Ships that could be adapted.
| ZzaphodD wrote: |
Also, with a damaged ship, power drops and the crew has to prioratize (is that a word in english? It is in swedish) what systems to run. |
Eek! I hadn't considered that. We'll need to add power loss into the damage tables. I had just used the EU stuff for design purposes, and as a way to prevent over-weaponed ships.
Yes Prioritize is a work in the English language, apparently with a similar meaning, too.
| ZzaphodD wrote: |
I would also add Power core to the list of ship components. |
It's is already there, under the name of Power Generator. It provides 8 EU/ton and costs 1000 credits per ton.
| ZzaphodD wrote: |
Darn I hade a lot of different options for ships made up years ago(I think 5 different versions of armor, lots of engines, etc). To bad both all my SW books and papers are gone, and the digital version disappeared in a HD swap over the years. |
Things like specialized armor (ablative?) could be possible additions.
The way I did engines up, in order to keep things compatible with ramp Freighters, was to assume that the drives in TF were for light freighters and that weight and costs varied in size for smaller and larger craft.
I originally was going to go with a Speed=Thrust/Mass formula, but it wouldn't have been compatible with Tramp Freighters. Most of the engines in TF produce the same thrust per ton, and are only more powerful because they are larger.
Also as most of the engines in TF give a modifier to the difficulty to modify them, they are probably "discount" versions and a standard (no difficulty modfiers) version might cost a bit more. Hopefully I can use that to round off the cost/ton to nice ever numbers. |
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Rerun941
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