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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:46 am Post subject: The überness of the Jedi. |
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After a long time of absence from swrpg, it’s just as I remember it. Jedi are replacements for almost every other character type in the party.
I feel almost ashamed to use powers like Concentration and Enhance Attribute. The only reason I still use them at some occasions is that I’ve created a really suboptimal character. Stat wise that is. Since I’m really good in the force it more than compensate for my low attributes (although I have a high dex).
If I would be a normal Jedi there is no end to the pity I would feel towards my fellow rebels in the party.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:24 am Post subject: Re: The überness of the Jedi. |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | After a long time of absence from swrpg, it’s just as I remember it. Jedi are replacements for almost every other character type in the party.
I feel almost ashamed to use powers like Concentration and Enhance Attribute. The only reason I still use them at some occasions is that I’ve created a really suboptimal character. Stat wise that is. Since I’m really good in the force it more than compensate for my low attributes (although I have a high dex).
If I would be a normal Jedi there is no end to the pity I would feel towards my fellow rebels in the party. |
That pity probably won't last long. Jedi PC pay for their Force skills in many ways.
1) Jedi are short a few dice in attributes compared to the other player characters, because they bought Control, Sense and/or Alter.
2) Skill dice spent of force skills, aren't available for things like dodge and piloting.
3) Raising force skills is expensive, unless one has a master.
4) Force skills start low since they don't have a attribute to star at the way most skills do
5) While Jedi are raising Force abilities, the rest of the group are getting about the same number of CPs, but spending them elsewhere. So the advantage they get from higher attributes and skill codes tends to increase over time. By the time a PC makes "full Jedi" the rest of the group are very good at what they do. |
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Praxian
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Add onto that, most Jedi need to truly specialize in 2 skills + the Control, Sense, and Alter.
Lightsaber and Lightsaber Repair are always primary things for a Jedi to raise up.
After focusing on primary force abilities, it's usually not too much else they can do -as well as- other players who are focusing on their own primary jobs / abilities. |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Praxian wrote: | Add onto that, most Jedi need to truly specialize in 2 skills + the Control, Sense, and Alter.
Lightsaber and Lightsaber Repair are always primary things for a Jedi to raise up.
After focusing on primary force abilities, it's usually not too much else they can do -as well as- other players who are focusing on their own primary jobs / abilities. |
I'd say one, Lightsaber. Jedi only need to be competent with Lightsaber Repair. 4-5D is usually plenty. (Considering that Jedi are supposed to build their own lightsabers, I suspect Lightsaber Design (A) at 1D might be required.)
But Lightsaber is a "bargain" skill. It combines both melee attack and parry into one skill, and can replace dodge for most purposes. So the Jedi is probably coming out ahead in the deal as far as Lightsaber goes. |
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hazardchris
Commander
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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I understand the complaint but, judging by both film and literature the jedi are overpowered. So in that respect, the designers got the game down well. Jedi are faster, tougher, and have access to powers that can make them veritable one-man armies. It's mostly up to the GM to control the power level of the Jedi to balance out the group, there's also things that have been mentioned numerous times here in the boards (training time, access to teachers, ect.) that make progressing as a Jedi hard to do. If handled right, it should all balance out.
I've really only had experience with one SWD6 game (although it's been on-going more or less for the past five years or so) and all of my players became Jedi over the course of the adventures. So, I've never really had to balance out the Jedi factor myself. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Plus depending on the time frame, they could be Hunted!
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Hellcat
Grand Moff
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 11921
Location: New England
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Praxian wrote: | Add onto that, most Jedi need to truly specialize in 2 skills + the Control, Sense, and Alter.
Lightsaber and Lightsaber Repair are always primary things for a Jedi to raise up.
After focusing on primary force abilities, it's usually not too much else they can do -as well as- other players who are focusing on their own primary jobs / abilities. |
I'd say one, Lightsaber. Jedi only need to be competent with Lightsaber Repair. 4-5D is usually plenty. (Considering that Jedi are supposed to build their own lightsabers, I suspect Lightsaber Design (A) at 1D might be required.)
But Lightsaber is a "bargain" skill. It combines both melee attack and parry into one skill, and can replace dodge for most purposes. So the Jedi is probably coming out ahead in the deal as far as Lightsaber goes. |
Actually, with lightsaber combat you could get by with a fairly low lightsaber rating. Succesfully activating lightsaber combat adds the PC's sense dice to their lightsaber skill when attacking or parrying, so theoretically you could have 1D in lightsaber but still be one serious saber weilder if you have a high sense rating. As long as the Jedi isn't stunned or worse the power stays up until they drop it, so someone who has put in enough time to raise their sense to 15D (wow, long campaign and it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn't even bother raising their lightsaber rating with how long it'd take to accumulate that many CP) could have their PC practically cutting down folks left and right on just 1D.
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Last edited by Hellcat on Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| hazardchris wrote: | I understand the complaint but, judging by both film and literature the jedi are overpowered. So in that respect, the designers got the game down well. Jedi are faster, tougher, and have access to powers that can make them veritable one-man armies. It's mostly up to the GM to control the power level of the Jedi to balance out the group, there's also things that have been mentioned numerous times here in the boards (training time, access to teachers, ect.) that make progressing as a Jedi hard to do. If handled right, it should all balance out.
I've really only had experience with one SWD6 game (although it's been on-going more or less for the past five years or so) and all of my players became Jedi over the course of the adventures. So, I've never really had to balance out the Jedi factor myself. |
Oh, I'm not really cpmplaining! And the progress of a Jedi is slower than non force users. Lighting up that sword also makes you a popular target amongst you enemies.
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:25 am Post subject: Re: The überness of the Jedi. |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
That pity probably won't last long. Jedi PC pay for their Force skills in many ways.
1) Jedi are short a few dice in attributes compared to the other player characters, because they bought Control, Sense and/or Alter.
2) Skill dice spent of force skills, aren't available for things like dodge and piloting.
3) Raising force skills is expensive, unless one has a master.
4) Force skills start low since they don't have a attribute to star at the way most skills do
5) While Jedi are raising Force abilities, the rest of the group are getting about the same number of CPs, but spending them elsewhere. So the advantage they get from higher attributes and skill codes tends to increase over time. By the time a PC makes "full Jedi" the rest of the group are very good at what they do. |
I'm with you on all counts.
With: dex 4d, per 2d, know 2d, str 2d, mech 3d, tech 2d. I feel like glass cannon with a melon for a head.
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Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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So against better judgment (Im being really stupid since my gm will read this) I think the enhance attribute should be a separate power for each attribute...
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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I have seen 2 gms who felt that way as well, ut did not implement anything to show that..
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Random Numbers
Commander
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Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I've decided it's not overpowered on my characters, since I'm such a dimwit and always forget to use it...
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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So, should anyone be able to stand up to the Jedi without being one (or any other type of force user)?
Units using for example phrik or cortosis on their weapons, was that to fight new padawans only? Given the SW D6 game mechanics not much stand up to even a rather shoddy 'jedi'.. Is this a WEG interpretation only, or is it still reflected in D20/Saga?
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Random Numbers
Commander
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Location: Gladsheim
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say that the Jedi in the movies are pretty much overpowered. They only die by the hands of other Jedi or by being stabbed in the back by multiple opponents. But in the rpg it might be fun for the non-Jedi to be able to stand a chance against them. Or stand beside them if it's a player Jedi.
I'm not so worried about the combat situations. The Jedi are supposed to be the ultimate melee fighting machine, but more of a thing when the Jedi replace the other characters in other situations. The Jedi always stand in front of the biggest meanest bad guy, thus bites the dust first of all.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | I'd say that the Jedi in the movies are pretty much overpowered. They only die by the hands of other Jedi or by being stabbed in the back by multiple opponents. But in the rpg it might be fun for the non-Jedi to be able to stand a chance against them. Or stand beside them if it's a player Jedi.
I'm not so worried about the combat situations. The Jedi are supposed to be the ultimate melee fighting machine, but more of a thing when the Jedi replace the other characters in other situations. The Jedi always stand in front of the biggest meanest bad guy, thus bites the dust first of all. |
You know, there are Jedis who doesnt bend in the wind like a straw of grass.. 
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