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Raven Redstar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Salem, OR
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 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:02 am Post subject: Ships over weight capacity |
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I have been working on upgrading a ship and I'm not likely to ever hit this point, but each of the modifications and replacement parts take up tonnage of cargo hauling, has seen anywhere in the official rules (besides: "the ship can carry as much as you as the GM says it can carry").
If you don't have any official rules, does anyone have house rules for this? |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 4:38 am Post subject: |
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If you modify it to where you run out of tonnage available, you cannot modify further until you drop off something that GIVES you more tonnage to play with.
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Raven Redstar
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I doubt I'll be able to do 100 tons worth of weapons and mods. I was wondering more about cargo hauling after mods are done. So say for instance, I've got 80 tons left, but I've got 85 tons of cargo. Not a lot over, just a little. |
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | I doubt I'll be able to do 100 tons worth of weapons and mods. I was wondering more about cargo hauling after mods are done. So say for instance, I've got 80 tons left, but I've got 85 tons of cargo. Not a lot over, just a little. |
By the book, there is nothing you can do other than make two trips,or hire out someone to carry 5 tons for you.
If you want a house rule, then for each 10% of weight over your tonnage limit:
- reduce you Maneuver pips, Move, and Space ratings by 10%.
-reduce the number of jumps you can make before you need to overhaul the hyperdrive by 2.
-increase your restocking fees by 10%
Also, increase any engine related mishaps by +1 severity. If at over 150% capacity,increase engine related mishaps by +2 severity and non-engine related mishaps by +1 severity (power drain). |
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Raven Redstar
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya, possible engine burnout. My group was also discussing maneuverability and speed penalties. In 1st Ed, you could sacrifice some speed for extra thrust capability (+20 ton weight). Maybe possibly allow a ship to temporarily sacrifice some of it's space units for extra 20 ton increments. |
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | Ya, possible engine burnout. My group was also discussing maneuverability and speed penalties. In 1st Ed, you could sacrifice some speed for extra thrust capability (+20 ton weight). Maybe possibly allow a ship to temporarily sacrifice some of it's space units for extra 20 ton increments. |
Sure. Most of the stuff in Tramp Freighters works both ways. That is, you can take out bits and replace them with less powerful bits and gain some cargo tonnage.
Now there are a few things about TF that I'm not crazy about. For example, if you put in a faster (more powerful) engine, the ship's cargo capicty goes down because the bigger engine weights more. I'd think a bigger engine should probably be able to haul more, with a limit based on the ship's Hull Code.
If we had some idea of how much the rest of the ship masses, we could do a simple Space/Tonnage relationship. |
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Raven Redstar
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Dunno, the ship I'm working on is a Gozanti-Cruiser, and I put in the Space: 10 drive already to replace the old space 3. Initial cargo capacity is 100 tons. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | Dunno, the ship I'm working on is a Gozanti-Cruiser, and I put in the Space: 10 drive already to replace the old space 3. Initial cargo capacity is 100 tons. |
One possibility might be to sell off some passenger space. There is a cost for converting cargo tonnage into passenger space. You could simply reverse the process to grab a little more cargo.
Geenerally speaking, with the costs for since repairs being based on the price of the ship (new), if you sell off too much cargo, the ship won't be able to make a profit anymore.
My group recently picked up a Subla Ransom. One of the Ransom's advantages is it's massive 700mt of cargo capacity. The group were able to add the weapons they wanted, a holonet transceiver, machine shop, medical bay, fuel scoops, matter converter, and (soon) a communications dish, and still have 500 tons plus of cargo space.
But with a stock price or around 240,000 credits new, it cost them a bundle whenever they need to ix something. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:35 am Post subject: |
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Also, remember the tonnage is not just the weight of it all, but the size/space you have. Just go smaller stuff but that is heavier...
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Also, remember the tonnage is not just the weight of it all, but the size/space you have. Just go smaller stuff but that is heavier... |
In theory.
But in actual practice size/space is rarely a consideration, as the cargo capacities are so low.
For example, water has a mass of 1 metric ton per cubic meter. So if a ship was transporting containers of water, it would take a little more space than 7 meters (23 ft) squared, if they were stacked 2m high.
With 3m high stacking, it drops down to about a 6m square.
Now, even after factoring in for packing containers, the space requirements aren't that much greater.
Most of the basic good categories given in Tramp Freighters (Tech, Minerals, Metals) tend to have specific gravities higher than water (sg1). Real World plastqcs tend to be in the sg 1-2 range, aluminum sg2.7 and steel in the sg7 range. Even assuming "space age" materials, I doubt that the sg will be lower that water, so most ships have plenty of room for cargo.
That is probably why they used mass as the limiting factor. |
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Raven Redstar
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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My group and I discussed it, and it didn't make that much sense why one had to have a slower engine to increase thrust. So we're going to make a separate modification table for engine thrust. Max 4 modifications. So at most +80 tons, which is a bit, but not too much, and we'll probably make the cost a factor of (hull) x (new max tonnage) x 10 credits. So a ship with 5D hull, improving to 120 tons would pay 5x120x10 = 6,000 credits. I would probably recommend doubling or tripling that for capital ships If allowing it at all Since 20 tons for a capital ship is nothing.
Maybe make upgrades for capital ships each 500, or 1,000 tons, It's costly enough when one thinks about it. ISD: 7D, 37,000 = 7x37000x10 = 2,590,000 credits (whew, that's quite a bit of cash.
Since the more cargo mass capacity a ship has, potentially the more money someone can make in shipping cargo. |
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | My group and I discussed it, and it didn't make that much sense why one had to have a slower engine to increase thrust. So we're going to make a separate modification table for engine thrust. Max 4 modifications. So at most +80 tons, which is a bit, but not too much, |
+80 tons is a huge difference, for most freighter. It practically doubled their capacity
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and we'll probably make the cost a factor of (hull) x (new max tonnage) x 10 credits. So a ship with 5D hull, improving to 120 tons would pay 5x120x10 = 6,000 credits. |
That's dirt cheap. It will make the medium size freighters pointless as it would be cheap and easy to turn a light freighter into a medium freighter in all but name for a fraction of the price of buying the larger ship. And the light freighter would be cheaper to operate.
Cheshire has a conversion of the SAGA rules for adding a cargo pod to a freighter. THe pod is probably the best, easiest way to add some extra cargo capcity.
I'm thinking I might do up a mod for ships. If we consider each 1D of hull to eqaute to 100mt of mass, and then add the cargo tonnage, we can get a total ship mass figure to use for calculations.
For example, if we use the YT-1300 as a baseline. It has 4D hull and 100mt cargo capicty. 4D=400mt+100mt for cargo = a nice round 500 tons.
It has a Space Speed of 4( and using Tramp Freighters, we see that such an engine has a mass of 10mt).
Now if we were to add another 100mt of cargo space, we'd up the total tonnage to 600, so our freighter would now move only 5/6 as fast. That doesn't mean much with a Speed 4 engine, but it will if the ship upgrades to a speed 6 engine.
Interrstingly, a Ghtroc 720 works out to a total mass of 501mt with this method, practically idential to the YT-1300.
Where this could become usefulis that we could use this method to work out mods for ships other than light freighters. So if someone has a medium freighter all the cost and masses could be prorated.
If we rated the engines in "thrust points" we could divivde that by the tonnage to get speed scores. (YT-1300 20thrust/5=Space 4)
If we rated the enignes in thrust per ton of engine we could then apply it for work out how big an engine you need to get a particlar speed for any ship. |
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Raven Redstar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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For a ship with 5D hull 100 tons, that's 30,000 credits to get it up to 180 ton capacity, I don't know about you, but I've never had 30,000 credits just sitting around on a character at any given time.
Anyway, for a first upgrade, I don't think it should be completely ridiculous in cost. And, even at 180 ton cargo capacity falls quite a bit short of most bulk and medium transports, the smallest having 350 ton capacity, just under twice as much, most of them having 10,000+ I don't see a problem with this. |
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | For a ship with 5D hull 100 tons, that's 30,000 credits to get it up to 180 ton capacity, I don't know about you, but I've never had 30,000 credits just sitting around on a character at any given time. |
30K sounds better. From the formula you gave I was expecting:
5x180x10=9,000 credits.
Doubling the cargo of a average freighter for only 9K would be a steal.
I do think the amount of increase should be a factor of the ship's original capacity. It should probably be easier to add another 10 tons or so to a ship that has a capacity of 100 tons than to one than started with a capacity of 20 tons.
As for having 30K credits. I've certainly seem characters with this much cash. Especially merchant captains. They need that kind of money to buy the cargo to fill the hold.
| Raven Redstar wrote: |
Anyway, for a first upgrade, I don't think it should be completely ridiculous in cost. And, even at 180 ton cargo capacity falls quite a bit short of most bulk and medium transports, the smallest having 350 ton capacity, just under twice as much, most of them having 10,000+ I don't see a problem with this. |
Big difference between bulk transport and a medium freighter. But as I posted above, I was more concerned about someone doubling their cargo capacity for only a few thousand credits. |
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Hellcat
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: New England
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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I know I brought this up before in another thread (think I may have been the one to start the threat, but it's been a while ago), but what you replace cost tonnage too. So you should subtract that tonnage from the toonage of the new item if you're replacing. Like if your ship has a 120 ton carrying capacity and you've got a hyperdrive that is four tons and you go up to a faster hyperdrive that is six tons, instead of loosing six tons of cargo space you'd only loose two tons.
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