The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

The Cave
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Adventures and Campaigns -> The Cave
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Leon The Lion
Commander
Commander


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:50 am    Post subject: The Cave Reply with quote

I don't know if something like this was ever suggested before. I recently had great success with this idea and thought I'd share. It's not mine but borrowed from a source I've (sadly) long forgotten.

We all know the cave on Dagobah, the one Yoda leads Luke to, saying he will "find inside only that, which he takes with him". The official, canonical explanation is that the cave is a Dark Side site, created by the death of a powerful Darksider, that preys on the fears of those who enter, holding their shortcomings before their eyes. That's all fine and dandy, but I never much liked that explanation. Mostly because years before I heard this official version I encountered a different one, in some fanfiction (it's been over ten years, I can't for my life remember what it was, or by whom), that I find much more interesting and compelling. And so, The Cave.

The Cave is not any physical place on any planet. Rather, The Cave is a test. The Cave comes to all Jedi (and other Lightsiders) at a certain point in their development. It does not necessarily even have to physically be a cave, it could be a ruin, an abandoned base, even a derelict ship out in space – when Its time comes, The Cave will find you wherever you may be – but a cave is the most popular and symbolic form it takes. Sometimes, your master will feel it's time and lead you to The Cave himself, like Yoda did with Luke. Other times, a student of the Force will himself feel a compulsion leading him to The Cave, or even stumble on it - seemingly - by accident while doing something else. But however it happens, sooner or later The Cave will come for you.

The Cave is a test and a lesson from the Force itself. It is a dark mirror held before your eyes, making you confront your fear, anger, hate, aggression, jealousy, selfishness, greed, the dark emotion that is your greatest flaw, or on the whole poses the greatest danger of luring you onto the path into darkness. The Cave is your first true encounter with the Dark Side, the first glimpse of the abyss – the potential abyss within your own soul. Truly, what you find in The Cave, is that which you take with you when entering It.

Sometimes, someone may accompany you into The Cave, but when this happens they are not there to provide help – rather to serve as a teaching aid. Normally neither yourself nor anyone else will be seriously injured or killed in The Cave, but it is possible, if you fail catastrophically. Usually in such a case, after it's over, you will awake in your bed as if from a nightmare, all traces of the experience gone from your body and the world and people around you, even if you could swear it was all so real. Not always, though…

Regardless weather they were the one to lead you to The Cave, your master will normally know you've had the experience, and more or less how well you did, but not exactly what transpired inside. In some extreme cases, when the student fails the test in a truly spectacular, appalling fashion, the master may even refuse him further training. But in general failing The Cave's test does not disqualify a student or indicate he is in any way unsuitable for ever becoming a Jedi – just that at present he needs more work. The same way, passing the test with no difficulty whatsoever does not necessarily indicate the student's perfection. A lesson learned the hard way is usually more valuable than a cake-walk.

The Cave is not technically a secret, but is a deeply personal experience and usually not something that is ever discussed. Masters do not tell students of The Cave's existence and significance and afterwards do not explain what happened and what it all meant, or even how well the student did, except maybe in a most roundabout way. That is for the learner to figure out, another part of the test. If the student has any promise at all, they will feel the answers in their soul. Master to master or student to student, The Cave is also usually not mentioned. If you pass, you do not brag, and you understand the importance of its personal nature, of living and understanding it for oneself. If you fail, the experience feels too painful, scary, bitter and shameful to share.

So there you have it. I've recently run a prelude for my new player and her Jedi PC in which I've used The Cave and it came out beautifully. I didn't explain any of the above beforehand, just sat down and played. The girl took with her into The Cave her fear of loosing her (adopted) sister (herself a fellow Jedi Padawan) like she did her parents, and her possessive love for her sister, and that is what she found and had to face. The situation I engineered for her wasn't maybe particularly deep, but it worked like clockwork. It was a close shave for a bit, but she recovered and went on to do the right thing. The lesson was a bitter pill to swallow – she did receive a Dark Side Point for her actions – but learn it she did, and will remember it. And it was just a satisfying, fun bit of role-playing for both of us.
Because of its personal nature for the character, The Cave may be somewhat difficult to pull off, but I find it's certainly worth the effort.

Make of this what you will.
_________________
Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
- Tom Lehrer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Praxian
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that.

I personally try to do a lot that's "Personal" to the characters, but most certainly being tested by "the force" for Jedi chars to learn certain things... good stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4851

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a pretty good archetypal description. Essentially the Cave is a temptation narrative essential to mythological and religious stories. I know I've said this before, but it's posts like this that remind me why I've said that Hero With a Thousand Faces is one of the best books a GM can read.
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10408
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke's Cave was pretty basic. It was more for the audience than for Luke. Vader represents (and was really) a Jedi who turned to the Dark Side. Luke seeing his own face represents his own potential for the Dark Side, which he saw as a result of attacking Vader out of fear (what he took in with him). It is a warning for the Jedi in training to avoid the path that Vader took. Of course the vision also personally represents that Luke is the son of Vader, a revelation he will have later. And it can be said that the vision also represents the good in Vader, a prophecy of the driving force of Luke's actions in RotJ. Luke being the son of Vader is really just to emphasize the idea of fear, anger and hatred being the path of Vader while faith and compassion was the path of Luke. It could have worked without them being related, but the father-son dynamic just intensifies the drama.

Leon, that's awesome! "The Cave" is a perfect opportunity for roleplaying and characterization of Jedi characters. Even though any Jedi in training could have a Cave matching Luke's since his Cave was so general in its warnings about the Dark Side, I like really the idea of personalizing it for each character. Leon, thanks for this write-up. Good stuff.

cheshire wrote:
This is a pretty good archetypal description. Essentially the Cave is a temptation narrative essential to mythological and religious stories. I know I've said this before, but it's posts like this that remind me why I've said that Hero With a Thousand Faces is one of the best books a GM can read.


I don't think I've said before just how awesome you are Cheshire. After reading this my opinion of you just jumped a thousand points above the very high level it already was at. I'm a huge Joseph Campbell fan. I have all of his books and have read a lot of them.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Doomhead
Commander
Commander


Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 252
Location: In the Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did Campbell's book enter the public domain? It was extremely easy to find a .pdf copy of the book.
_________________
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things, right now: Jack and s**t... and Jack left town." - ASH

http://www.box.net/shared/cn6f7sdkog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Leon The Lion
Commander
Commander


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Leon, that's awesome! "The Cave" is a perfect opportunity for roleplaying and characterization of Jedi characters. Even though any Jedi in training could have a Cave matching Luke's since his Cave was so general in its warnings about the Dark Side, I like really the idea of personalizing it for each character. Leon, thanks for this write-up. Good stuff.

Such glowing prise Embarassed Very Happy
Especially since, like I said, it's not really my idea, I just wrote up and systemized what I've seen done in a story. I'd really like to give credit where it's due, but I can't remember where I've read this Sad
But I'm really glad people like it. I was just so happy with how it worked for me that I wanted to share.

cheshire wrote:
I know I've said this before, but it's posts like this that remind me why I've said that Hero With a Thousand Faces is one of the best books a GM can read.

So they don't clatter up the forum by posting things anyone can easily read in a book?... Wink
That's not the first time I heard this one recommended. I'd have to finally follow this advice.
_________________
Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
- Tom Lehrer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4851

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomhead wrote:
Did Campbell's book enter the public domain? It was extremely easy to find a .pdf copy of the book.


I'm fairly confident it is not yet in the public domain. Though I don't know for certain. There are a lot of things you can easily find on the internet, even if it isn't legal to distribute them. Smile
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10408
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon The Lion wrote:
Such glowing prise Embarassed Very Happy
Especially since, like I said, it's not really my idea, I just wrote up and systemized what I've seen done in a story. I'd really like to give credit where it's due, but I can't remember where I've read this Sad
But I'm really glad people like it. I was just so happy with how it worked for me that I wanted to share.

Your idea or not, thanks for sharing it here. The sharing is awesome. Smile

cheshire wrote:
Hero With a Thousand Faces is one of the best books a GM can read.

Leon The Lion wrote:
That's not the first time I heard this one recommended. I'd have to finally follow this advice.

I obviously second that recommendation. Great book.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Random Numbers
Commander
Commander


Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea!

To me the force is a living but not sentient thing. The testing would have to come to the jedi because he reached a certain state in his jedi training. Maybe a higher state of consciousness. When the force grew strong enough in the said jedi, the forces would be strong enough to start feeding on his emotions. Or something like that. It's all in his mind.
_________________
Random is who random does...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rerun941
Commander
Commander


Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 459
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post!

If you have access to the Star Wars Hyperspace site or SWAJ #11, check out the short story called "The Most Dangerous Foe" by Angela Philips. It's another tale of the trial of an aspiring Jedi Knight, complete with its own version of "The Cave."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Foe
_________________
Han - "How're we doin'?"
Luke - "Same as always."
Han - "That bad, huh?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finished reading "Hero with a Thousand Faces" last week. Have already purchased 6 more Campbell books!
Very Happy
_________________
- J.T. Swift

For Everything about the TARDIS check out
http://www.whoniverse.net/tardis/

For all things Gallifreyan check out
http://meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hazardchris
Commander
Commander


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PBS did a wonderful series of interviews with him back in '88. So if you don't have the patience to read his books (or even if you do), check them out as well. They more or less spend all of the airtime talking about Star Wars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Documentary was called "The Power of Myth."

[JT goes back to prepping "Otherspace" for tonight's game with a bunch of casual Star Wars fans... Twisted Evil ]
_________________
- J.T. Swift

For Everything about the TARDIS check out
http://www.whoniverse.net/tardis/

For all things Gallifreyan check out
http://meshyfish.com/~roo/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10408
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JT Swift wrote:
Finished reading "Hero with a Thousand Faces" last week. Have already purchased 6 more Campbell books!
Very Happy


Zang!
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Adventures and Campaigns All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0