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Electric Judgment Force Power: Let me know what you think...
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, there are many players out there who want to be able to use the dark side abilities with no fear of repercussions, which is why I though of increasing one of the difficulties to be able to achieve the option of stun damage instead of lethal damage. Maybe have the control roll increased to very difficult or heroic to demonstrate how difficult it is to walk that "fine line" Increase the difficulty by an additional 5 or 6 for ever dark side point the character already possesses. Since self control and the dark side rarely go hand in hand.
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Treefrog
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just went with what I've actually read in a novel.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolfe wrote:
cheshire wrote:
So it can be used just the same as Force lightning?


Have you seen the debates on this power online?



I have. However in his version of the power, he's made no mention of the possibility of lethal damage, and I was wondering if he had any intention of letting people use it to do lethal damage.

Quote:

The authors seem to enjoy renaming darkside powers with some tree hugger name and having it used with "good intent" thus allowing the jedi no ill consequences in using them, even though the authors don't seem to recall that "good intentions" is what caused Anakin to fall to the dark side in the first place.


Heh... yeah. In those debates I like to rename Force Choke into something like "Righteous Respiratory Restriction." It just makes all the bad parts of killing beings with the Force just disappear. I also go through the rulebook and say that the Jedi can't murder people, but they can merdyr people. It's pretty much the same thing, but there's no dark side points. Smile

My question was not so much about whether the power as it is described in the EU allows for lethal damage, more along the lines of whether the rules he's crafting allow lethal damage. There's a difference.
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Treefrog
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revision 6:

Electric Judgment
Warning: A Jedi who uses this power for any reason, other than to incapacitate an opponent, gains a Dark Side Point.
Control Difficulty: Difficult, as modified by proximity. Limited to line of sight.
Alter Difficulty: Perception or control roll of target.
Effect: This power was developed by Jedi Master Plo Koon, in order to incapacitate an opponent, rather than to kill him/her. When used, it produces sparks of yellow or green that dance across the target. Armor does not protect a character from electric judgment. Since this power is Force-generated, it may be repelled with absorb/dissipate energy. The target may make a strength roll to resist.

These sparks, if used successfully, will overload the target’s nervous system, rendering him stunned unconscious for 2D minutes for each 2D of alter the user has (round down: a character with alter of 7D will cause the opponent to be stunned unconscious for 6D minutes). If the number of stunning dice exceeds the target’s Strength attribute by more than two times, then the stunning damage is converted to actual damage.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still imo off. Why have the warning of a dsp if you cannot go beyond incap??

My thoughts, regard the diffs as force lightning, but add 10 to alter and 15 to control to 'pull it to only do incap damage'. If failed in that part, but still succeed in pulling off the power normally it does full damage.
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Treefrog
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Still imo off. Why have the warning of a dsp if you cannot go beyond incap??

My thoughts, regard the diffs as force lightning, but add 10 to alter and 15 to control to 'pull it to only do incap damage'. If failed in that part, but still succeed in pulling off the power normally it does full damage.


Because, if the user, if after adjusting the stun dice and it exceeds the target's strength attribute by 2X, gets the full brunt of damage (ala Force lightning).
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But then how is Plo Koon able to use the power to incapacitate people? His Alter score is more than enough to murder 3/4s of sentient species.
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Nefasius
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps by applying concentration as a requirement, so that they only roll so many alter D to avoid any chance of more than incap... E.G. As a Jedi Master Koon would be more than able to do this.

However it's just my opinion to the bend rules in such a way after all 'the rules aren't meant to get in the way of good story telling'
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Treefrog
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
But then how is Plo Koon able to use the power to incapacitate people? His Alter score is more than enough to murder 3/4s of sentient species.



Would 3X the Strength attribute work better than 2X? And have Concentration and Emptiness as prereqs also?
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly. However when dealing "stun" damage, there's no chance of killing, so the idea that there's a flat die code that has to be beaten to kill the target seems a little wrong, take for instance if a GMC uses it against a player, and just happens to have a high enough force attribute to insta-kill the player, doesn't make for good mechanic in my opinion.

Part of the reason with my suggestions you make an increased difficulty to control the damage to stun, if they fail, then they blast the target with real damage, and possibly kill them, even if they don't, because they "used" real damage, the initiator recieves a DSP. I think this power should not be a power used, or taught lightly.
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wolfe
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just some general notes for folks thought would add.

Electric Judgement ability was a created from force lightning.
(PG 82 Jedi vs Sith Essential guide to the Force).
Ploo Kloon used Force lightning then adapted it and perfected it, he said it was an innate ability within himself.
He was already a Jedi master when he did this on the mission to Metellos (post hyperspace war and prior to gaining seat on council).
The first time he used force lightning he could control how much damage he did to the target, he hit the target multiple times, the first barrage acted as though it was a tazer the second barrage knocked the target unconcious, he said he was never "tempted" to deal a killing blow, that he never embraced the dark side but acted on the will of the force.
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BreederofPuppets
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolfe wrote:

The first time he used force lightning he could control how much damage he did to the target, he hit the target multiple times, the first barrage acted as though it was a tazer the second barrage knocked the target unconcious...

This sounds like he used Force Lighting, and just limited the number of dice he used for damage. With the appropriate senses (Life sense maybe?) he could judge how much damage he needs to deal to push the target to incapacitated.

Controlling your dice pool might be simpler than creating a whole new power.

wolfe wrote:
...he said he was never "tempted" to deal a killing blow, that he never embraced the dark side but acted on the will of the force.

...because it is well known that while electrocuting some one multiple times, testing out a new power, is a bad thing, unless "it's the will of the Force". For non-Jedi characters, it's called torture.

How come whenever someone mentions "as the Force Wills" they always forget that one half the Force is evil?
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Treefrog
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason I think that electric judgment is a viable Force power on its own is due to the fact of the description of Force lightning, vs Electric judgment:

Force lightning: blue bolts

Electric judgment: yellow/green sparks

Now I know that there are those that will say "That doesn't make any difference;" however there's a big difference between the two descriptions.

Also, don't forget that by the time of the Legacy of the Force books, Luke had perfected the power that Plo Koon had initiated.
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Treefrog
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Possibly. However when dealing "stun" damage, there's no chance of killing, so the idea that there's a flat die code that has to be beaten to kill the target seems a little wrong, take for instance if a GMC uses it against a player, and just happens to have a high enough force attribute to insta-kill the player, doesn't make for good mechanic in my opinion.

Part of the reason with my suggestions you make an increased difficulty to control the damage to stun, if they fail, then they blast the target with real damage, and possibly kill them, even if they don't, because they "used" real damage, the initiator recieves a DSP. I think this power should not be a power used, or taught lightly.


I agree with the limiters argument.
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Treefrog
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revision 7:

Electric Judgment

Control Difficulty: Difficult, plus 10 for each Dark Side Point the user possesses, and as modified by proximity. Limited to line of sight.
Alter Difficulty: Perception or control roll of target.
Required Powers: concentration, emptiness, life detection, life sense.
Warning: A Jedi who fails to exceed the control difficulty, gains a Dark Side Point.
Effect: This power was developed by Jedi Master Plo Koon, in order to incapacitate an opponent, rather than to kill him/her. When used, it produces sparks of yellow or green that dance across the target. Armor does not protect a character from electric judgment. Since this power is Force-generated, it may be repelled with absorb/dissipate energy. The target may make a strength roll to resist.

These sparks, if used successfully, will overload the target’s nervous system, rendering him stunned unconscious for 2D minutes for each 2D of alter the user has (round down: a character with alter of 7D will cause the opponent to be stunned unconscious for 6D minutes).

If the user cannot meet the control difficulty, then the sparks that the user has blasted the target with converts to actual damage equal to 1D for every 2D of alter the user has (round down: a character with an alter of 7D will cause 3D damage).
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