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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | | That sounds like a very good system, Whill. I always felt it was a bit strange how unbalanced the different species were. Humans are completely bare-bones, but some aliens have endless lists of special abilities, worth a good number of skill dice. |
Personally, it's something I love about WEG; the inherent lack of balance among species. Perhaps it's due to the fact that, well, simply, I know that not every species is equal... perhaps because it's a novelty within RPG systems to not have such a focus on making everyone equal in the name of being "fair".
Even with the vast differences between your bare'bones humans, near-humans, etc. I have found that the majority of players still play humans. It's not really necessary to balance.
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I do appreciate the fact that WEG doesn't "dumb things down" in order to balance everything out. In reality things are not balanced, and some things are simply better than others. That said, I think some situational penalties here and there not only add flavour to alien species but keeps power gamers from having their way.
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Never underestimate the power of xenophobia 
I do tend to restrict the use of particularly powerful species in my games, unless I'm confident that the player is mature and responsible enuogh to play the character as a good (ie. quality) character rather than power game with it... there needs to be good justification. But this does all come down to judgement call, which can vary widely group to group, GM to GM.
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QMaverick
Cadet
Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, with my current 18D/18D setup, we are all running humans...I wouldn't mind someone wanting to play an alien species, but no one has asked me to. 
I agree though, that the races shouldn't be balanced..they should have quirks, bonuses, and negatives that make them completely different than the other species....it's part of the fun! 
Starting dice are pretty much the only rule we change in our games, and I do tend to keep the skills (unless there is a darn good reason) capped at reasonable levels. Well-roundedness helps with small groups. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | | I do appreciate the fact that WEG doesn't "dumb things down" in order to balance everything out. In reality things are not balanced, and some things are simply better than others. That said, I think some situational penalties here and there not only add flavour to alien species but keeps power gamers from having their way. |
But you forget that there is already a big balancing factor... THE imps!! And their hate of aliens.
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
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Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, that IS a big factor. As long as you're not playing in the New Republic era, or New Jedi Order era, or Rise of the Empire era, or KOTOR era...
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Kilgore
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 51
Location: The Kamino Cloning facilities.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| In the game I've just started I gave all the players 18D Attributes and 14D for their Skill pool. I allowed them to put 3D in ONE skill. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like some around here like more power games than me..
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I allow 9d for skills and the players are ecstatic.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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For the most part i go with the standard 18/7. Rarely will i up it to 18/10, with one skill getting the chance for 3d. 2d otherwise as norm.
There has only been once i went beyond that, and it was for a weekend long pick up game and i gave them 300cp to build their character... When we were done, 3 of 5 were dead, 1 was mortally wounded and the last was captured.
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masque
Captain
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Seems like some around here like more power games than me.. |
Power gaming isn't a problem if the power levels are equal amongst all the characters, or at least reasonably close (I don't mind the unbalanced aspects of certain species, for instance). Whether as a player or a GM, sometimes I like to start out a bit mightier than the standard for beginning characters, but with that, it also usually means that the challenges are also amped up.
Currently I'm running a HARP campaign which did start out at 1st level, but the players had a significantly large number of points for their stats, 700 IIRC, to distribute amongst their 8 attributes (HARP is an open-ended D100 system, descended from MERP and Rolemaster, so it's also very skill based, even with a level system). For the first few levels, I took it relatively easy on them, and they've advanced rather quickly over the past 2 years or so. Due to the nature of the setting (Cyradon), there hasn't been much in the way of cash treasure or magic items, though.
Now that they're getting to around level 10, however, they're getting to the point where they're going to be facing entire armies. The seeming advantage that they've enjoyed to this point isn't going to mean much anymore as things get increasingly epic, but they will have a fighting chance, at least.
I think that as long as the power levels in any game are relatively balanced amongst all the characters, and that everyone, including the GM, is enjoying themselves, there's nothing to prevent one from jacking the power level up if that's what will maximize said fun.
Starting at whatever game's equivalent of the beginning is (level 1; 18D Atts, 7D skills; 100 points, etc) can be rewarding, and I see nothing wrong with it, but I don't think it is a requirement by any means.
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ifurin
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| i will admit it is fun to once in a while just go nuts and really amp up characters. i usually do this at conventions when i'm only running a 4-5 hour game. for me i prefer the slow rout, it's much more satisfying to build up a character to the bad-@$$ levels. though i will allow players extra skill dice for disadvantages. in my current game one of the players wanted to play a germiphobe so i gave him extra skill dice. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10395
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | | That sounds like a very good system, Whill. I always felt it was a bit strange how unbalanced the different species were. Humans are completely bare-bones, but some aliens have endless lists of special abilities, worth a good number of skill dice. |
| Ankhanu wrote: | | Personally, it's something I love about WEG; the inherent lack of balance among species. Perhaps it's due to the fact that, well, simply, I know that not every species is equal... perhaps because it's a novelty within RPG systems to not have such a focus on making everyone equal in the name of being "fair". |
I also know that all species are definitely NOT created equal. I make NO effort to balance species as a whole or alien gamemaster characters. But I do like to balance player characters (ONLY) against each other. Even if it is not a novelty, MY players appreciate my efforts in the direction of a tad little bit more fairness between PCs in my game.
| Ankhanu wrote: | | But this does all come down to judgement call, which can vary widely group to group, GM to GM. |
Ank, I respect your judgement call as GM for your own games, and I appreciate your acknowledgement of my judgement in my games. Thanks.
| Ankhanu wrote: | | I have found that the majority of players still play humans. It's not really necessary to balance. |
I wish that were the case for my game. All I get are players that want to play aliens, despite the fact that there is prejudice against them under the Empire. It also severely limits the adventure possiblities, because of all the places that aliens shouldn't be and would stick out like a sore thumb. So instead of ruling against aliens being player characters, I balance them all out and become more creative with my story design.
Let's say you want to play a Verpine under the normal rules. They can have a starting TEC as high as 5D, and you could allocate 2D to any 3 TEC skills. So those 3 skills would be 7D for a starting player character. But one of their special abilities says that they get +2D to all TEC skill roles, so in effect, those 3 skills are 9D for a starting PC, and ALL of his other TEC skills (that he didn't add any skill dice to) still have a functional 7D, starting out. IMO, that is utterly rediculous. Plus on top of that they have natural body armor, microscopic sight and organic telecommunication ability, with no disadvantages. I love the Verpine species, but it is possible to have a PC game mechanics interpretation that still captures the spirit of the species fluff without making them so overbearingly powerful compared to other starting PCs.
But as previously stated, we are all just posting here for the sake of discussion, and it is ultimately up to each GM.
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