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Jotho
Cadet
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:30 am Post subject: New GM - Difficulty With Combat |
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Hi, all!
About seven years or so ago, my primary game was Star Wars, but only a few weeks ago did I find a group who is willing to play with me again. I've never been GM before, but we had our first game tonight, and aside from the normal GM nervousness, I think it went well.
My major problem, though, was understanding the order of combat, specifically that of starship combat. I was particularly confused about when reaction skills should be used, and had a particularly hard time with shields.
Does anyone know of a good outline of the combat rules on the net? I'd love to have something easy in front of me when combat started. :)
Thanks very much in advance! |
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Esjs
Captain
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 636
Location: Denver, CO, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:13 am Post subject: |
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Well... let's see, it's been a few years since I've played a game myself (long story), but let's see what I can remember from reading the rules.
OK... after reading the rules, I think we must have used some house rules to speed up combat:
1. Initiative (we used individual initiatives, whereas the 2nd Ed. R&E says highest PER for each side).
2. Actions take place in order from highest initiative to lowest (characters with the same initiative go at the same time).
3. Characters can react to actions taking place by using reaction skills. In our space combats, pilots would dodge shots by rolling the appropriate piloting skill for that vehicle, which counted as an action (therefore, unless dodging was the only action the character was taking that round, apply multiple action penalties).
4. We used "cheap" shield rules. These are definitely contrary to the rules in 2nd Ed. R&E (maybe this reply should be reposted in the House Rules board).
A. Basically, we said energy shields were OFF by default at the beginning of combat and a successful shield skill roll for that spacecraft (counts as an action) would turn on the shields and leave them on for all of that combat. I can't remember if we dealt with the "arcs" the same way as the core rules; I wanna say there were times where we just said there was full coverage at the number of shield dice for that ship.
B. I also want to say that when a ship was hit with a shot, we'd just roll the shield's dice first, then if the shields did not absorb all of the damage, the hull dice would be rolled to absorb the rest of the damage (and the ship would take whatever damage remained).
I'm not sure if that really answered your question or helped you in any way, but this is what I give you. Take it as you will. |
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:31 am Post subject: |
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We never used the "shield arc" rules either. It always felt strange to us, and being an X-Wing player, I never thought it should work that way. So we just considered shields to be always on and at full power on all arcs, and you had to roll your Starfighter Piloting or such skill to avoid incoming shots.
To clarify combat rounds:
-Roll initiative. Each one acts in turn, from higher to lower score. We went as far as everyone taking their first action in turn, and then their second action in turn, and so forth, to make the pace more realistic.
-Before the round effectively begins, everyone states how many actions they'll do that round, though they don't have to specify what they are actually going to use them for. Then all actions suffer the appropriate multiple actions penalty.
-When someone fires at you, you can use one of your actions to dodge, or save them for other uses. And so the round goes until nobody has any actions left.
Maybe it would help if you asked some specific questions about where you're having problems.... |
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Jotho
Cadet
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info, all.
| Quote: | | Maybe it would help if you asked some specific questions about where you're having problems.... |
The major areas I'm having problems are with dodge and shields:
a. Dodge. My issue here is, say the PCs have taken their actions, and then get fired on. Are their Dodge Dice reduced by the action(s) they've taken so far? And can they take additional actions after they dodge? If so, does that interrupt the rest of their actions for the turn, or does it just reduce their next action by an additional die?
b. Shields. My questions were basically answered, and I think I'm going to try the "cheap" shield rules next time, as posted by Esjs. If I understand correctly then, those "cheap" shield rules would work thus:
1. Get hit.
2. Roll Applicable Piloting Skill.
3. If no dodge, roll full shield dice for the ship.
4. Reduce damage by shield roll; roll hull dice for additional damage.
For my own benefit, I'm going to try making a Combat Outline sometime soon. I'll post it here for comments and for other's use once it's done. :) |
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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Olathe, Kansas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We never used the "shield arc" rules either. It always felt strange to us, and being an X-Wing player, I never thought it should work that way. So we just considered shields to be always on and at full power on all arcs, and you had to roll your Starfighter Piloting or such skill to avoid incoming shots. |
I used to play the X-wing PC also and I just assumed they gave you some "extra" shields to help you survive a difficult game. One of the interesting things about X-wing game was that you could divert power from other systems to enhance others. For example, the essential tactic in X-wing was at the start of every mission divert all your weapons power to shields. The power from engines, lasers, shields, could all be redirected and shuffled. It would be neat to see a mechanic like this in D6.
In the movies you hear comments like, "Shields double front!" and "Stabilize your rear deflectors." It seems to me that arcs are definitly used. Perhaps the best example,
C-3PO: "Sir! We've just lost our rear deflector shields...one more hit on the back quarter and we're done for."
Solo:"Turn her around! I'm going to put all power in the front shields."
Leia:"Your going to attack them!?"
For starfighters maybe just front and rear arcs are necessary but capital ships should use all four arcs. In ROTJ the Executor lost its bridge deflector shields (the front arc?) but the sheilds on the rest of the ship were apparently functional.
| Quote: | | I also want to say that when a ship was hit with a shot, we'd just roll the shield's dice first, then if the shields did not absorb all of the damage, the hull dice would be rolled to absorb the rest of the damage (and the ship would take whatever damage remained). |
In the rules it says you add the shield dice to the hull dice. Your way is an interesting alternative. Why did you choose to do it this way? This could make starship combat more deadly... |
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Jotho
Cadet
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In the rules it says you add the shield dice to the hull dice. Your way is an interesting alternative. Why did you choose to do it this way? This could make starship combat more deadly... |
Huh, you're right. It seems for my purposes, it would be much easier to combine shields with hull, as per the rules (2nd ed, r&r p. 126).
Also, MA-3PO, you point out a few good reasons for shield arc. I'm gonna have to think about this one, 'cause I find the rules for shields kinda confusing inside gameplay. Hm. |
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RedFox
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 196
Location: El Centro, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Jotho wrote: | | Also, MA-3PO, you point out a few good reasons for shield arc. I'm gonna have to think about this one, 'cause I find the rules for shields kinda confusing inside gameplay. Hm. |
Perhaps an example would help.
Example: Szardra has Starfighter Piloting 6D (Maneuverability provides 4D), Starship Gunnery 4D (fire control provides 3D), and Starship Shields 3D. She's flying a Chiss Clawcraft with 3D+1 Hull and 1D of Shields.
As Szardra pilots her ship out of hyperspace, she's attacked by an Imperial patrol wing of three TIE-Fighters coming in from behind. She wins initiative and decides to raise shields.
She attempts to raise shields in all firing arcs (the safest solution, though the most difficult to pull off quickly). She rolls starship shields of 3D and gets a 10. Four firing arcs is a Very Difficult task, so the GM assigns a TN of 25. Szardra fails to raise shields (unless she spends some CP for extra dice on the attempt).
If she'd decided to only cover her rear firing arc, the GM could've assigned a TN of 7 (Easy) and she would have succeeded in raising shields.
Assuming she succeeded in her attempt to cover all firing arcs, any TIE-Fighters shooting at her would have their damage resisted by 4D+1 (The clawcraft's hull code + the 1D of shields).
Keep in mind that manipulating shields is a reaction skill and can therefore be attempted at any time in combat whether spare actions are available that round or not. Just like a (starfighter) dodge.
A competant co-pilot is useful because they can handle reaction skills for the pilot without causing multiple action penalties. See Chewbacca handling shields for Han.
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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Olathe, Kansas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | She's flying a Chiss Clawcraft with 3D+1 Hull and 1D of Shields.
She attempts to raise shields in all firing arcs (the safest solution, though the most difficult to pull off quickly). |
I thought a ship with only 1D in shields can only cover one arc at a time? Am I missing something? |
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Esjs
Captain
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 636
Location: Denver, CO, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | | In the rules it says you add the shield dice to the hull dice. Your way is an interesting alternative. Why did you choose to do it this way? This could make starship combat more deadly... |
I think we were just trying to cut down on the number of dice needed to roll. I could see arguments for adding 3D+1 Hull to 2D+2 shields because the pips would add up to +1D (6D total), as opposed to rolling them separately. On the other hand, if I only need to roll 2D+2 to absorb a weak shot, then 6D is a bit overboard. ::shrug:: Again, it's been a few years since I've actually played. I could be confusing this with some other "armor rules" from another game.
| MA-3PO wrote: | | I thought a ship with only 1D in shields can only cover one arc at a time? Am I missing something? |
No, you're not missing anything... those are the standard rules which say that shield dice must be split up among each of the arcs that are "up." (And I imagine the rules are trying to keep each arc at a minimum of 1D). Therefore, under the standard rules, to have 4 arcs up, each at 1D, the ship's stats must have at least 4D of shield dice.
There are a lot of people (e.g. those who have played the X-Wing and/or TIE Fighter video games) who don't like this concept and make house rules that the ship's full shield dice are applied to all arcs (if they're even using arcs). |
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RedFox
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 196
Location: El Centro, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:41 am Post subject: |
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It wasn't a house rule, it was just my bad for not reading the section thoroughly enough.  For the record, I can't see any statement in R&E that the "split" has to be a minimum of 1D. I'd assume there's a minimum of "one pip" though.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14214
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:46 am Post subject: |
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I have always used the arc system for shields. And to answer the dodge question. yoiu can use one of teh actions you have declaired for it, or do like for ground combat, and take a further reactionary action making all other actions that comes after teh 'dodge' be hit by a further -1d.
As to the pip/die thing for shields, i cannot remember anything in the R&E book about it, but i do remember back in first ed, they did say IIRC you could split your shield die into the arcs but had to go with a minimum of 1d for any arc...
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