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jmanski
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 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:17 am Post subject: |
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I too feel D6 gives a more realistic feel of success or failure. The probability bell curve is nice for straight up success/failure, but I like it for damage too. D20 has you roll an amount of damage which gets deducted from a number of hit points: but even a blaster hit doesn't ensure that damage gets done (IE I can shoot you with a gun, leaving a bullet hole in your sleeve- it's not going to happen very often, but it is possible).
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masque
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Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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Is it weird that I have absolutely never been worried about bell curve distributions and other probability factors in RPGs? It's not just this forum, but also on RPG.net and sjgames.com and other forums where I invariably come across bell curve analyses, etc. Me, I don't give a damn about the probabilities that rule systems support, whether they are single or multiple die, I care more about how well the rules model (to my perception) the world that they attempt to emulate.
I am a history/literature/gaming geek, not a math geek at all. Bell curve probabilities go right over my head. I got a 1340 on my SATs back in the day, but that was 780 on verbal and 560 on the math. I run D6, when my group is in the mood, because D6 Star Wars is one of the systems i cut my RPG teeth on, but right now I am running a HARP campaign (HARP being similar to the other game I cut my RPG teeth on, MERP) using the D20 scale, and I really don't see a lot of difference in probability. If you roll well, you do well, if you roll badly, you do badly. Do the bell curves really make a difference?
(I'm not being sarcastic at all, as a non-math geek, I am honestly mystified.)
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Esjs
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Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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Location: Denver, CO, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| masque wrote: | Is it weird that I have absolutely never been worried about bell curve distributions and other probability factors in RPGs? It's not just this forum, but also on RPG.net and sjgames.com and other forums where I invariably come across bell curve analyses, etc. Me, I don't give a d*mn about the probabilities that rule systems support, whether they are single or multiple die, I care more about how well the rules model (to my perception) the world that they attempt to emulate.
I am a history/literature/gaming geek, not a math geek at all. Bell curve probabilities go right over my head. I got a 1340 on my SATs back in the day, but that was 780 on verbal and 560 on the math. I run D6, when my group is in the mood, because D6 Star Wars is one of the systems i cut my RPG teeth on, but right now I am running a HARP campaign (HARP being similar to the other game I cut my RPG teeth on, MERP) using the D20 scale, and I really don't see a lot of difference in probability. If you roll well, you do well, if you roll badly, you do badly. Do the bell curves really make a difference?
(I'm not being sarcastic at all, as a non-math geek, I am honestly mystified.) |
I think (and this is just my layman psychology theory here), math geeks have a certain affinity for RPGs because of stats (short for statistics)... i.e. using numbers to simulate/model a reality. Of course there is the creative aspect of RPGs, which is a very important facet. Not all statistics fans are roleplayers, and not all roleplayers are statistics fans. But there definitely seems to be a strong correlation of the two in my experience.
In response to your question "Do the bell curves really make a difference?", I would say "yes" but it may not be a significant or perceivable difference.
Both systems are essentially asking "Do you succeed at attempting X, yes or no?" Similar to what you said: if you beat the difficulty you succeed, if you don't beat the difficulty.
Supposedly, how much you beat or miss the difficulty by shouldn't matter. But in reality we like to take note of extreme/excessive successes and failures.
I can't think of a good way to summarize this all up... so I'll just end with a 
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Gry Sarth
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: |
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I had never really thought about that whole bell curve issue, but I very much like your reasoning, Esjs. It's something I have always felt, in comparing d20 and D6, but never quite took the time to analyse the reasons.
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DarthMortis
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Joined: 23 Sep 2008
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Location: Moorhead
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| masque wrote: | You forget that D6 is a great system and D20 sucks.  |
That is up to debate. I like D20.
| Gry Sarth wrote: | Yeah well, that's implicit.
Plus, D6 has the Wild Die, which makes just about any role an event in an of itself. |
D20 has something similar to this. If you roll a 1 on a your D20 then (our group) rolls again, if it's another 1, then it's like rolling two 1's on a lucky, and the same with three 1's.
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Gry Sarth
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Is that a house rule?
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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It's an optional rule; think it's in the D&D DMG, possibly in the SW books too. It's basically to counter the critical idea.
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Lostboy
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Lets just all agree d20 sux and never speak of this again. |
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Gry Sarth
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
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Sabre
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | | Only a Sith deals in absolutes. |
Oh, the irony! |
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| Sabre wrote: | | Gry Sarth wrote: | | Only a Sith deals in absolutes. |
Oh, the irony! |
Haha, yeah, I quite enjoyed the irony of the line when I heard it too
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10438
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: Re: D6 and D20 differences |
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| blindworld81 wrote: | ive been looking all over online and i cannot find an answer that makes sense. basically here it is. what is the difference between d6 and d20 gaming. i have the d20 by wotc and was baffled with the d6 thing.
thanks
rich |
Star Wars d20 is extremely complicated, while Star Wars D6 is extremely easy.
For d20, making a player character can be a game-session-length activity in of itself. With D6, you can pick a template. Then allocate your starting skill dice. Then record a name, height, and brief physical description. Bada-bing-bada-boom, instant player character. Player character creation can take minutes with D6, as opposed to hours with d20.
d20 was designed for dungeon crawl, while D6 was designed to be cinematic.
Star Wars d20 is D&D in space. Star Wars D6 is... Star Wars.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I read the d20 core rule book and tried to make an npc. That's when I gave up on d20.
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: D6 and D20 differences |
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| Whill wrote: |
Star Wars d20 is extremely complicated, while Star Wars D6 is extremely easy.
For d20, making a player character can be a game-session-length activity in of itself. With D6, you can pick a template. Then allocate your starting skill dice. Then record a name, height, and brief physical description. Bada-bing-bada-boom, instant player character. Player character creation can take minutes with D6, as opposed to hours with d20. |
That depends on your players quite heavily. With several people I've been playing with in the past couple years, making a character for d6 takes them hours upon hours... usually consuming a complete session. This is also true for making d20 (D&D) characters. While d6 is infinitely easier, some players just don't graps rules well I guess, and character generation can be an arduous task despite its ease.
I really don't understand where that hang up comes from 
It takes me about, say, a minute and a half to five minutes to create a character, depending on how complex I make it. Takes me maybe up to 15 minutes to make a D&D character (3.x/Pathfinder RPG).
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cheshire
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Lostboy wrote: | | Lets just all agree d20 sux and never speak of this again. |
This thread is started by someone who is a d20 player and is asking for an honest comparison to D6. If you want someone to try your game system, perhaps you may want to re-think the approach.
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