| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
In my view (not sure if it's oficial or not), at the beginning of the round, you only have to declare HOW MANY actions you'll take, in order to determine your MAP for that round, not WHAT those actions will be. That latter part is to be set as the round is played.
This way, those characters full dodging will only say they take s ingle action, and later on declare a full dodge. Of course, there is some logic in all the player firing at the guy who's standing still and firing at them, instead of at the guys doing sommersaults away from the fight, from a reality POV, not just a gaming mechanics one....
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them." |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Eiren wrote: |
First of all, he despised declaring actions in the order that the game allows you to. An example he gave was 4 pirates and 4 pc's are in a fight. The pirates declare first. 2 of them do full dodges, one of them does a combat dodge and fires one shot, one of them fires 3 shots. NOW the pc's get to declare actions. 3 of them fire on the one who is firing 3 shots specifically because he is not dodging and they know it, (the 4th pc is irrelevant, I see the point he is making). |
I can see where he is coming from with that part, but when the characters declare actions it is not a specific action they declare. They just say i am going to take 3 actions, not 3 shots, or 2 shots and a dodge, or a shot, a move and a dodge..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slaughterj
Lieutenant
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 79
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
On a related note, I have been bothered by the split between selecting to parry (melee or brawl) or dodge. It seems that if someone is actively "dodging" (in a real/general sense, not game-defined sense), then they should be harder to be hit by melee or ranged attacks, which is the case with most games. Also, this split causes a further problem in that the "agile" person who boosts their Dodge to be evasive also has to boost their Melee/Brawling Parry as well to truly be "evasive" - else they'll just get punked by a Pirate with a sword while dodging multiple blaster bolts.
And as a note, if someone declares a "defensive" action, e.g., combat dodge or full dodge, in a round, I let them also freely get to roll parry as well if it is needed, without a MAP penalty. (It sucks and doesn't seem to make much sense if someone is doing a mad full dodge to avoid being hit only to be punked by a Pirate with a sword.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The ruling we use in our game is that you CAN use dodge against Melee Combat or Brawling, but it means you're not evading a blow, while still remaining in the fight (like a boxer would) but you are diving fully out of the combat. You're jumping/rolling/running out of the fight with no possibilitiy of striking back at your opponent in the immediate future (current and maybe next round). That seems to work pretty well and is balanced enough. If you want to evade a punch/sword attack while remaining engaged to your opponent, you have to use the appropriate Parry skill, if you simply want to dodge the hell out of that fight, you're allowed to use Dodge.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
suud43
Commander
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
Location: Nuernberg, Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gry Sarth wrote: | | The ruling we use in our game is that you CAN use dodge against Melee Combat or Brawling, but it means you're not evading a blow, while still remaining in the fight (like a boxer would) but you are diving fully out of the combat. You're jumping/rolling/running out of the fight with no possibilitiy of striking back at your opponent in the immediate future (current and maybe next round). That seems to work pretty well and is balanced enough. If you want to evade a punch/sword attack while remaining engaged to your opponent, you have to use the appropriate Parry skill, if you simply want to dodge the hell out of that fight, you're allowed to use Dodge. |
This sounds both very reasonable AND realistic. The surest way not to be hit in combat is n ot to be where the blow lands, as a block or parry might not "hold up" to a hit.
_________________
"When they get ready, we are already done."
"Learning by pain, motivation by horror."
"Life is real tough, bring a helmet." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| suud43 wrote: | | Gry Sarth wrote: | | The ruling we use in our game is that you CAN use dodge against Melee Combat or Brawling, but it means you're not evading a blow, while still remaining in the fight (like a boxer would) but you are diving fully out of the combat. You're jumping/rolling/running out of the fight with no possibilitiy of striking back at your opponent in the immediate future (current and maybe next round). That seems to work pretty well and is balanced enough. If you want to evade a punch/sword attack while remaining engaged to your opponent, you have to use the appropriate Parry skill, if you simply want to dodge the hell out of that fight, you're allowed to use Dodge. |
This sounds both very reasonable AND realistic. The surest way not to be hit in combat is n ot to be where the blow lands, as a block or parry might not "hold up" to a hit. |
Agreed, that's a good system. In general, however, I don't like the idea of lumping together defenses from melee/brawl attacks and ranged attacks. I like that they're separate, but in cases like the above, Dodge could make sense for evasion.
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.
Donate to Ankhanu Press |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
noctum_carpe
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Lidköping, Sweden
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gry Sarth wrote: | | The ruling we use in our game is that you CAN use dodge against Melee Combat or Brawling, but it means you're not evading a blow, while still remaining in the fight (like a boxer would) but you are diving fully out of the combat. You're jumping/rolling/running out of the fight with no possibilitiy of striking back at your opponent in the immediate future (current and maybe next round). That seems to work pretty well and is balanced enough. If you want to evade a punch/sword attack while remaining engaged to your opponent, you have to use the appropriate Parry skill, if you simply want to dodge the hell out of that fight, you're allowed to use Dodge. |
Me like it, it makes sense.
_________________
http://selarips.free.fr/wookieetranslator/
You may fire when ready |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| suud43 wrote: | | Gry Sarth wrote: | | The ruling we use in our game is that you CAN use dodge against Melee Combat or Brawling, but it means you're not evading a blow, while still remaining in the fight (like a boxer would) but you are diving fully out of the combat. You're jumping/rolling/running out of the fight with no possibilitiy of striking back at your opponent in the immediate future (current and maybe next round). That seems to work pretty well and is balanced enough. If you want to evade a punch/sword attack while remaining engaged to your opponent, you have to use the appropriate Parry skill, if you simply want to dodge the hell out of that fight, you're allowed to use Dodge. |
This sounds both very reasonable AND realistic. The surest way not to be hit in combat is n ot to be where the blow lands, as a block or parry might not "hold up" to a hit. |
Agreed. That is a nice way to regard teh dodging of melee/brawl attacks. Consider this rule snagged for my home games.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slaughterj
Lieutenant
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 79
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gry Sarth wrote: | | The ruling we use in our game is that you CAN use dodge against Melee Combat or Brawling, but it means you're not evading a blow, while still remaining in the fight (like a boxer would) but you are diving fully out of the combat. You're jumping/rolling/running out of the fight with no possibilitiy of striking back at your opponent in the immediate future (current and maybe next round). That seems to work pretty well and is balanced enough. If you want to evade a punch/sword attack while remaining engaged to your opponent, you have to use the appropriate Parry skill, if you simply want to dodge the hell out of that fight, you're allowed to use Dodge. |
It doesn't sound too bad, but it seems problematic with the system and the setting though. With regard to the system, one is already having to deal with how to spend points on 3 different defense skills, and with 2 parries, rarely are both going to be bought much which already minimizes one, plus if Dodge gets this boost, the 2 parries are going to be bought even less. With regard to the setting, which is predominantly about ranged attacks, Dodge is already heavily favored and this only furthers it at the expense of the 2 parry skills as noted above. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not sure that it messes with the system at all... I mean, the Dodge only applies when you're moving a few meters away; Melee/Brawling parries still apply if you ever want to stay within combat range and defend yourself. The two parry skills are still quite useful.
Yes, Star Wars deals largely with ranged combat... the parry skills are generally not applicable, but they make sense for various character concepts, less so for others. Not being good at parrying is a weakness, sure... but weaknesses define characters just as well as (if not better than) strengths. You don't want a character that is only composed of strengths do ya? How boring (imo).
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.
Donate to Ankhanu Press |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's right. Most characters in the Star Wars universe won't have those parries skills raised, so they would do well do keep some distance from that nut wielding a vibroblade or that raging wookiee. But in steps those characters who have a background in close-quarters combat, and they will be in a position to face such menaces up front and counter attack them.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Revenant
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 73
Location: Tennessee
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Considering character points are rather easy to come by, spending them on three defense skills isn't too bad. My current character has all three (Dodge, B. Parry, M. Parry) and I can't say I have any complaints.
As far as only one roll being used for the entire round, well, that varies with the situation in my games. Against a horde of Stormtroopers I'll use the one roll rule. Simply put, the game isn't about Stormtroopers, it's about the characters and since the stormies are just extras they'll get stuck trying to hit a 44 on 5 dice. Screw em', it's thier fault for being extras.
Dramatic situating are different however. When Bantha Bob squares off against Darth Weezer well then damnit the galaxy shudders and the pillars of the Valley of the Jedi shake! Each attack is hand picked and wrapped in the packaging of desperation tied neatly with the velvety bow malice!
Put short, during lightaber duels, melee duels, and epic scraps each attack requires its own defense roll, MAPs apply. It's more heated that way...
That's just my flavor. Individual results may vary, keep out of reach of ithorians, may cause irritation in Sith, and any inflamed rodans should cease use and consult thier family Doctor. Wookies should not ingest after midnight and keep them away from water.
_________________
"Told you, we did. Warned you, we tried. Now screwed, we all are... way to go Kenobi." - Jedi Master Yoda
"The boy is plain dagnasty evil!" - Obi-Wan Kenobi |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shnar
Ensign
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 45
Location: Elk Ridge, UT
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Darth Ginzain wrote: | | In first edition one of the problems with multiple defensive rolls I found was characters would exploit the system using very high attack dice. I had one @$$ that would put everything into blaster. No other skill he thought was needed. Other players and driods would handle the rest. When combat started he would make the maximum number of attacks. At one point he had 8d in blaster and at short range or less he'd make 7 attacks with 2d each. Now his thoery was the defender would have to have 8d dodge in order to defend against all of his attacks. Which often wasn't the case. A typical 5d dodge would allow 3 attacks to be undodged. So he'd have to roll 6-10 on 2d in order to hit. But with 3 attacks he'd hit at least hit once. I was very happy to see the single defensive roll and the combine action roll. Then a squad of stormtroopers weren't a laughing stock. |
Isn't there a max-rate-of-fire on a weapon? I.e. a Blaster simply cannot be fired more than 4 times in a round? Also, for that very reason, I've toyed with the idea (though never implemented) a max on the number of actions a player can take in one round. I was thinking it should be your DEX attribute. So if you have a 3D+2 DEX, you could only do 3 actions in one round. Or perhaps only have 3 "declared" actions, but still allow reactionary actions.
-shnar |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Xynar
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Northwest Indiana
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I like the idea of a well skilled character being able to pour fire into the enemy. A character with a 10D skill in blaster, surrounded by 6 stormtroopers (ie point blank range), should be able to take them out. It's cool, fun, and exciting. Sure the character would be rolling 5D for each shot but I say let him burn through his ammo. I don't care. My villians can then do it too.
_________________
Xynar
The Great Adventurer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Delkarnu
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 189
Location: Saratoga Springs, Upstate NY
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The combined fire rule represents the increased difficulty of dodging multiple shots and explains the single dodge roll.
A group of stormtroopers can pour their fire into a single area, where you just dodged from, same chance of hitting you, but if they do all shots land and do high damage, or they can spread their shots out, cover more area and make it difficult to dodge them all, but if you get hit, it'll only be by a bolt or two so you don't have as much damage to soak.
With Melee / Brawling, I like to just use an opposed melee combat or brawling roll, no parry skills. Covers the full parry, counter, dodge against an opponent for the round, more cinematic that way. Multiple rolls are for number of opponents, since you are splitting your concentration to battle two people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
