How do you apply MAPs and why?

[Sith'Ari Lizanthrin]

There are two distinct versions of MAP accrual, one at a time or all at once.

Example: Ly'dira the Padawan wants to activate Lightsaber Combat and Take 2 Other Actions saved for two parries in case someone shoots at her. She's not very skilled or very confident.


--MAP Accrual 1 by 1-- Ly'dira Rolls her Control at no penalty, Sense at -1D, 1st Parry at -2D, and second parry at -3D

--MAP Accrual All at once-- Ly'dira makes all 4 actions at -3D

Both systems have their merits.

In one by one we see a simulation of "getting worn out" , the player is at peak doing something once, but the more they cram in there the less skilled they become.

In All at once you have a great check and balance to player action, 1 by 1 can be munchkinized, players making "important" rolls at the least negative. In all at one, the player has to think carefully how much they want to stretch themselves in advance cause it affects them across the board.


Which do you use and why? IIRC both were at one time (in various editions, sorry I only own R&E so I can't verify this) the actual rule.


Alexis
*smiles*



PS- Sorry for the across all boards posting, new to the forums so I am surfing them and chiming in, just so happened I ended up with one in each category ^_~

[Esoomian]

I apply them all at once to signify the detrimental effect of splitting ones focus.
_________________
Don't waste money on expensive binoculars.

Simply stand closer to the object you wish to view.

[vong]

I apply all the original ones at once, then the "evasions" later on as they are needed. this way a player can still dodge if he does not declare it.
_________________
The Vong have Arrived

PM me if you want user created content uploaded to my site: http://databank.yvong.com/index.php

[Ankhanu]

[Gry Sarth]

I've always played it all at once. If you're trying to do 3 things at the same time, they all suffer equally. Players have to declare how many actions they'll take ate the beginning of the round and they are stuck with that MAP for all those actions (they don't have to state beforehand what those actions will be, though). I will allow a player to add a reaction dodge later on the round, but that dodge suffers a further -1D penalty (so it would be at Original Round MAP +2D penalty).

I really don'r recommend doing otherwise, since it can be easily munchkinized and make for some senseless scenes.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Sith'Ari Lizanthrin]

I too apply all at once, and I also allow for a reactionary dodge. I don't add an extra -1d like Gry but I can understand why he does it. To stop people from declaring their intended attack actions and have them take dodges as they may while not being penalized for non declaration of their true intent.

I just don't find that I have a problem with munchkinization this way. If people start declaring 3 actions, use them all and are constantly doing 2-3 dodges as well (Random numbers not indicative of dice pools in game) I will go to Gry's method.

I tried "drop a dice, act again" and truly it DOES make for some serious munchkin play. I don't like it though I can understand it "theoretical" purpose.


Alexis
*smiles*

[Revenant]

[Sith'Ari Lizanthrin]

I tried the MAPs one at a time with no definitive declaration phase.


Basically we would start a combat turn (1 round was when every had completed one action, instead we applied MAPs across the turn under the assumption unless they chose to act again most people take a single action. So MAP accrual happened throughout the combat. I felt at the time that since I had done away with 5 second rounds, that drop a dice roll again simulated getting tired over the combat turn. The highest initiative went first, and once the actions had gone around if someone else wanted to act again they took their MAP and made their roll.


What I ended up with was one player who convinced me to let his Knight join my campaign, timeline did not prohibit it,and our Padawan was already in pain for teachings, so I said sure. What I got was someone with 8D LS, and 7 and 8 respectively in Control and Sense, can anyone guess why he had 8 in sense? Anti MAP.

The really disgusting thing was it would have been moderately ok. We were using turn based instead of round based combat. But the Jedi killed it. The first time he dropped a FP after already having enacted LS Combat the turn prior, Started at -1D for keeping it up. Everyone else declared one action sufficient. But then we saw this. Ok I parry the blaster bolt 15D, Send it back at him 14D, Attack this stormie 13D, that stormy 12D, grab the crates and send it at the doors to block it 10D (only on 7D alter, so his MAPs dropped him 2 numerics here since his base for TK was lower), It went on and on, until I believe, about 4D when he said "I atta...no wait I wont make it now, screw it I am done."


I was dumbfounded, wrapped the game up that night and the next time my players showed up we had a long talk about it and went to R&E all at once.



The idea SEEMED sound, the logic behind it, realistic to me. Combat begins everyone is at their peak, as it wears on you are more and more "worn out" in reality it just widened the gap between Jedi and non Jedi. In the standard rules he would have made all those LS attacks at a total of 5D and his TK at 4D. Would not have been scoring Heroics +10 and above on his first 4 or 5 rolls (exact numbers he rolled escape me, but I know on a 7D action he managed a 63 due to a ridiculous Wild Die streak rolled in front of all...



Sometimes being too nice to the players (letting them get away with too much) is as detrimental if not more so to the game's enjoyment overall than being stringent and following the rules.



Alexis
*smiles*

[Sith'Ari Lizanthrin]

Also please note the problem here was also from our using roll control and sense once in the beginning of combat mark down the numbers and add it to all your rolls.

The way my former GM had done it. He is quite the munchkin.

Doing those rolls first, can you guess what happened? Bonuses for LSC were always ludicrous. Because of the accruing of MAPs being slower. Of course I was very new to SW at this time. Owned no books, and played off the grace of borrowed books that I would lose sometimes to their original owner even on game nights.

Combining the drop a dice roll again method with Lightsaber combat is where it got fuzzy for me.

If someone enacts Lightsaber Combat, and then holds it up next round do the full dice pool rolls still count? Even to this day the keeping up of LSC can be confusing to me. Why use the full dice to enact it and get a good roll if you have to drop those numbers next round? Just to succeed? Is rolling new bonuses every round too cumbersome?

Anyway I digress.

I was new to the game system but not new to Gming and it did not take me long to realize my mistakes, buy my own books and get it right for my gamers in my group (ymmv, I am blessed with no munchkins and only one person prone to fudging rolls and usually in good causes). Buying nearly every D6 book has helped alot. Once I finish up the Adventure Journals and Adventure Modules, and my Birthday gift of a few hundred bucks worth of Star Wars Ebay items arrives, my collection will be nearing completion. Shadowrun and Star Wars down...what next hehe.

But the Lightsaber Combat, keeping it up, keeping your LSC totals is a whole nother kettle of fish. I can see how people would just go with that as opposed to adding the dice to each while "holding it up".


Alexis
*smiles*

[garhkal]

[shnar]

Does anyone put a cap on the amount of actions one can declare in a round? I toyed with the idea that you could not do more actions than your Dex Attribute (i.e. if you had a Dex of 3D+1, you could not do more than 3 actions in a round). It just seemed that doing too many things at once was a bit munckiny...

-shnar

[garhkal]

I have seen many use the # attacks equal to dex, or dex+1..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Gry Sarth]

It's never come up in a game of mine a situation where someone was able to do an absurd amount of actions in a round. MAPs usually take care of that.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Grimace]

I use the "apply all at once" method. When I first started playing, I misunderstood the rules and did it with the "one at a time" method. It only took one Force Point usage with someone at 8D bumping up to 16D to make us realize that something was wrong. After reading, rereading and re-rereading, I realized the mistake I had made and went to the "all at once" method. That put a stop to a lot of the uber-attacks, even when a FP was used.

Sure, a FP use could get a person to do more actions because they could perform say... 6 actions for a -5D and still be rolling 4D or so for each roll. But it was way better than someone doing 11, 12 or more actions in a round.

[FightingCorsair]

I use the all-at-once method. Using the one-for-one method speeds up play but it can make for way too many actions.

I've seen players (when we were playing Cyberpunk, which also uses MAPs) target the enemies at longer ranges first, while their numbers were higher, then move closer as the number dwindled.