Alien Species stat limits?

[masque]

I know various alien species have minimum and maximum stats listed, but were those hard coded, or just for NPCs? I always ruled that PCs never had a max below 4D, so that if someone wanted to play a Rodian or a Twi'Lek, they wouldn't be gimped. I don't have my books here at work, and I'm trying to figure out if there was any official ruling regarding the difference between PCs and average members of the species.
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[Ankhanu]

Well, with any rule, they are guidelines... but, yes, the maximums are just that, maximums. It is possible to go beyond a species maximum, but that should be done though normal character advancement via character points after creation; the rules on increasing beyond species maximum are covered in the rules.

To remove the species maximums kills the flavour of playing that species. Part of taking a different species aside from the potential cultural differences, is the fact that they are physically different, with different inherent levels of aptitude in the six attributes. Ignoring that, you're ignoring what it is to play as that species... You're also offering special abilities without giving the players any kind of drawback for taking them. For races without special abilities, why bother if you're going to equalize their stats anyway, why not just play human or funny looking human?
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[Matthias777]

The maximums are there for a reason, and are for both NPCs and PCs. I don't feel that one could consider a PC "gimped" when he has a lower maximum than a Human. Especially when you consider that that species usually has higher maximums in other attributes. And for those species with less than 12D of attribute dice (Twi'leks, for example), don't forget that you get to make up the difference in starting skill dice. I feel that if I get hung up on the maximum dice not being high enough, I'm avoiding some roleplaying and focusing too much on rollplaying, if you get what I'm saying.
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Arek | Kage

[Orgaloth]

The 12D strating dice is what the average member of that race has. Because you're playing the 'hero' you get an additonal 6D, because you are meant to be slightly better then average.

So as the others have said, the species max is the genetic best for that race, unless they train extra hard, and the pc pays the cp cost to break the max.
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[Hellcat]

The maximum is the max for the average adult of that species. It's fairly simple to increase up to the max for attributes while gaming and gets a little more complicated when going beyond the max. I just posted the following recently in the general discussions thread of the Rebel Uprisings PbP

[masque]

I buy that for alien species where it's balanced, but if you look at Rodians, they have two skills that go above the human average, by +2 and +1 respectively, and all their other skills below the human maximum, and they get no special abilities in compensation. Technical and Mechanical are both below 3D, even. I'll accept that it's the official rule, but I think I'll keep house ruling a more human like range, at least for player characters who pick species that don't have any corresponding special abilities to compensate. As long as my players don't have a problem with each other, I think I'll be fine.

Edit: If I was trying to do a stereotypical Rodian Bounty Hunter, combat intensive, the defaults would be fine, but this came up in trying to make a non-combatant techie type in the RPG.net forums. I seem to have the guy who runs WEG on my side, so at least I can't be too far off the mark.
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[Ankhanu]

Again, WEG Star Wars is not built with 1:1 balance in mind, like WoTC d20, or other level based systems. Yeah, bonuses and detriments don't always balance. Aliens are built with their stats to represent what that species is good at, or not so good at, not to make sure that all is fair on a one to one basis.

If a species is "gimped", well, who says that the offended player has to play it? If you don't want stat penalties, don't play that species. For those who are interested in playing a Rodian, to portray being a Rodian, not just a funny looking human, they'll be willing to take the hit to stats to have that cultural/personality flavour for their character.
Using your example of a non-combat Rodian: Yeah, he's going to be weaker than a human in his chosen field... but that's part of the fun; weak for a human, but... he's NOT a human Breaking the stereotypical mold for a species can be a lot of fun, and it should be a challenge, both in terms of how they relate to the galaxy and in trying to make it in a field that, racially, he's not necessarily suited to (ie. weaker stats)

I also think that balancing out weaker stats to make them equal to a human's takes away a lot of the flavour that is Star Wars, and its varied, unbalanced setting. That some are weak and some are strong is an important aspect to the Star Wars universe, that is preserved within its unbalanced system.
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[DoubtBreak]

[Reyus Graven]

I do agree that sometimes you like to have benefits for being something. However even when you look at the real world around us no to creatures are really equal. Theres always something stronger or faster by and far then another counterpart somewhere else. Think a cougar is tough tell that to the lion. Different environments will produce diverse creatures that don't always mesh together.

I find though that a handicapped character can be fun to play sometimes. If a GM is good enough to play with the social aspects of a certain character race it can make for good fun. Being a brute type character that doesn't fight can make a challenge that much more fun when you over come it. Often when something overcomes a hurdle especially a racial one (Jawa gladiator) they become something stronger because of it. A jawa wouldn't get much respect in the ring till he started winning. By giving lower stats it makes becoming something that much more accomplished when you win. That and I'd rather play a race I think is interesting and overcome its hurdles to make an archetype I like to play
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[Matthias777]

I think that a lot of people overlook something...Ankhanu touched on this above I think. A certain species may only have modest improvements to its attribute maximums, and at first glance the lower maximums of that species' other attributes may make it look as if the species is, as we're calling it, "gimped". But most people fail to notice that the minimums are lower, as well. "Wait!" you say. "I know that, but that doesn't help. Who wants lower attribute minimums?" Well, I don't know about you, but I recall several times when I was creating a character and thought to myself, Man, I wish I could lower this character's Technical attribute lower than 2D; there's another PC in the party that will handle all of that, and I could really use the extra attribute dice in this attribute over here. Lower attribute minimums are a boon in such instances, and I think that a lot of people fail to realize it. So next time you're looking at a "gimped" species, think about what kind of character that species was meant to play, look at the attribute minimums, and see if they don't help out in your attribute dice allocation. If you're playing a PC that goes against the grain of that species' mainstream, I'm going to go ahead and assume that you're not going to be too worried about rollplaying, since obviously your focus is on roleplaying.
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Arek | Kage

[noctum_carpe]

Hum perhaps the wookie mediator with 2D+2 in strenght..
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[garhkal]

[Ankhanu]

If you're going to bump low maximums to 4D, that seems to me like you should drop high maximums to 4D as well... otherwise, the humans in the group will be gimped.
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[masque]

[Gry Sarth]

I see your point, and it has also troubled a player of mine. What you really seem to be questioning is not the whole "max attribute" system, but simply the species stats WEG created for certain races. I agree with you that the Twi'lek stats don't really fit the bill. I mean, here we have a species of galaxywide-acclaimed dancers, with grace and nimbleness to spare, and they have a Dexterity maximum of 3D? I think that's just wrong.

How do you solve it? You tweak it to your liking. The min/max system is good and valuable, it's only that some stats could use a little tweaking here and there.
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