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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
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 Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I can see arguments for both sides of this issue. Yoda himself said that the dark side is very hard to sense. The fact that members of the council were sensing the dark side's clouding of the flow of the Force tells you that Palpatine was working some serious crafting of the Force. It might be possible (and I say this without going through and reading everything I can find on the dark side) that the dark side is indeed difficult to Sense, and you'd have to be fairly experienced in the Force in order to have a prayer of detecting it.
On the other hand, perhaps the swirls of dark side that were clouding everything were simply the ebb and flow of the chaos building within Anakin, and his inevitable slide to the dark side. Perhaps THAT is what they were sensing, and didn't realize it until too late. They surely didn't expect Palpatine to be the Sith Lord, but Mace Windu had already expressed doubts about Anakin from the first day he'd met the boy. Yoda himself had said that he'd sensed in Anakin many of the very qualities that lead right to the dark side.
So which way is it? Again, we'll probably never know. But we can have fun dissecting it here, though!  |
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Pel
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Joined: 10 May 2006
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm unaware of any WEG material specifically discussing physical degeneration caused by excessive Dark Side use. The first place I saw it was in the Dark Empire series, in which the Emperor maintained an army of clone bodies to transfer his consciousness to when the old one wore out. That's where we got that cool Transfer Life power. Go Sith! 8)
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Neo-Paladin
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Off on some damn fool idealistic crusade,
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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And from an expression in Ep II we’re lead to believe that Yoda didn’t fully trust Palpatine either. I thought it was one of the cooler moments of the CGI Yoda.
I’ve never been sure what to make of Palpatine clouding the entire Force. It troubles me because it seems to contradict Empire Strikes Back where Yoda firmly asserts that the Dark Side is not more powerful. This one guy trumps how many Jedi, and the Dark Side isn't more powerful? I’ve personally chalked it up to a combination of hiding in plan sight, and Palpatine keeping everything so chaotic that the visions of the future, vague to begin with, were just impossible to make sense of. I’ve also liked the idea that the Force has a sort of season to it, cycles like that fits into the sort of meta-myths Star Wars draws upon.
Of course this is all conjecture, but as you say, fun.
Thanks Pel. There’s a lot of WEG lit I’ve never seen, so I was mildly curious.
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Mogul76
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Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 28
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone still have access to these house rules for the Force? The posted link seems to be "dead" and I'd really like to read this PDF file 
Thanks,
Mogul76 |
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Neo-Paladin
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Off on some damn fool idealistic crusade,
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Sorry this somehow got removed from my web space. Any interested parties can find it at the link below.
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/ealderson/alt-force_mech.pdf
As usual, feedback very welcome.
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Mogul76
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Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| A nice interpretation of the Force, Neo-Paladin. I like it. |
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DoubtBreak
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Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm looking forward to reading it (when I have more time).
Just to throw out an alternative to the various explanation for Palpatine's disfigurement- when faced with the same question (as GM), I opted to use a pre-existing rule, and said that for purposes of my campaigns, it was the "permanent injury" side-effect of using the Force power Reduce Injury to avoid being killed by deflected Force Lightning. |
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Neo-Paladin
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Off on some damn fool idealistic crusade,
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: |
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I'm glad you liked it Mogul76. Thanks for pointing out the link was gone.
I hope you enjoy it DoubtBreak. The permanent injury route to explain Palpatine's disfigurement isn't a bad one to go with methinks. I didn't immediately see that the lightning was being redirected back to Palpatine, but it's certainly a strong candidate.
Of course it still leaves open the question why do Sith's eyes go yellow...
besides the fact that it looks cool on screen.
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Neo-Paladin wrote: | Of course it still leaves open the question why do Sith's eyes go yellow...
besides the fact that it looks cool on screen.
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I think ya nailed it
But, the basic idea is that those in which the Dark Side is strong, their bodies are corrupted by the tainted power. Their bodies age unnaturally quickly (EU stuff suggests that Palpatine had been in several cloned bodies before the one we see in the movies... mostly clones of him, but clones) unless they find some way to sustain the flesh from the corrupting influence. The yellowed eyes is just one of those corruptions of the flesh from the intense negative energy.
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Neo-Paladin
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Off on some damn fool idealistic crusade,
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well, lets face it, the fact that it looks cool on screen is the reason for every special effect.
I'm somewhat familiar with the EU material you're talking about, though it's probably been awhile since I read it. I just tried to reflect the corruption in the alternate Force rule set I wrote up, under 'Waste'. As embedded as WEG was in the EU, I remain a little surprised there was no mechanics for the physically corrupting influence of the Dark Side.
I guess that just means I get to feel a little more smug. 
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Neo-Paladin wrote: | ... As embedded as WEG was in the EU, I remain a little surprised there was no mechanics for the physically corrupting influence of the Dark Side.
I guess that just means I get to feel a little more smug. |
WEG never intended PCs to be so powerful in the Dark Side that the corrupting influences would really have any part in game mechanics. I mean, look at how slowly Dark Side characters gain character points; it's intended to completely cripple the playability of the Dark Side. Doesn't surprise me that they didn't try to include the physical corruption experienced by those who are extremely powerful and immersed in the Dark Side.
They left it as narrative rather than a mechanic.
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Neo-Paladin
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Location: Off on some damn fool idealistic crusade,
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, I never said I thought the WEG rule set was bad...
I just like mine better. 
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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haha, the WEG system needs a lot of tweaking, imo
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bestial warlust
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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Has anyone had a chance to try these rules out? how have they worked? |
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DarthMortis
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Joined: 23 Sep 2008
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Location: Moorhead
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I know this is a little late, but this is the topic that made me want to actually create an account. So...I'm sorry that it's a bit off of topic now, but it took a full day for me to get my conformation E-mail.
| Jedi Skyler wrote: | I've never read any of the WotC books, so I'd never heard that one before. Kinda makes sense, as it's obviously possible.
But I personally have a hard time believing that Palpatine was putting forth the level of power required to hide that kind of disfigurement while at the same time keeping himself fully hidden from the Jedi. Sure, the effects of his doings were detected, and a general "there is a disturbance in the Force" kinda thing was happening, but for Mace Windu or Yoda to be completely unable to detect the Sith Lord running rampant in their midst seems a bit out there to me, if he were indeed keeping that kind of illusion up.
But it's an interesting theory, at least. I'd need to know a bit more about the actual workings of the dark side in order to form a more educated opinion on how likely that scenario would be. |
"The Mask technique was a special application of Sith Alchemy, a technique that was little-known in the galaxy (perhaps even almost forgotten)- for good reason. Though Sith Alchemy could be used to create dangerous artifacts or horrific monsters, the Mask technique was far more subtle. A Sith Alchemist could use the Mask to literally reshape an individual's appearance, altering a body at the molecular level. Very little was beyond this technique, limited only by the craftsmanship of the user. Features, age, disfigurations, even species could be concealed with the Mask (though the latter would require an incredible amount of skill to accomplish convincingly). Owing to its molecular nature, the technique lasted until altered, and even a thorough medical examination would not be likely to reveal anything out of place, unlike the tell-tale scars of surgical alterations. In fact, not only was a Mask more convincing than cosmetic surgery, but it was also horrifyingly faster: a skilled alchemist able to alter an appearance in mere minutes (provided the necessary materials were on hand).
Normally, this technique was used by alchemists to conceal the ravages of the dark side, or to hide their identities from inquisitive Jedi, but it could be used for far more sinister means... such as duplicating and then replacing a chosen individual.
The technique wasn't entirely without risk. The process itself could be incredibly painful, and complications from the procedure could result in serious injury or even death. There was also one rarely-encountered oddity with the Mask technique. As it was a product of the dark side of the Force, on rare occasions it would resonate when exposed to powerful blasts of dark side energy. If the subject was not careful, the Mask would literally melt away, horrifically disfiguring the individual and making further attempts at concealment (even with the Mask) difficult.
It is said that Palpatine, a master at Sith Alchemy, may have used this technique in order to conceal his appearance from the people of the Republic and present a more appealing facade. But if he did, his encounter with Mace Windu and several other Jedi Masters changed that, when Mace reflected Palpatine's lightning blast back at him, disfiguring the Sith Lord's face. "
That is a full explanation of the Mask ability, taken directly from Wookieepedia. I just thought I would throw my (their) 2 cents out there and help clear up any confusion.
The ability is not an illusion, but like it says it actually CHANGES the structure of the molecules inside of the persons body to put forth the illusion, so Palpatine would no be using an actual illusion, but the darkside to create a means of an illusion
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