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Feyladil
Ensign
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Aachen, Germany
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 Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:27 am Post subject: Alternative stun rule |
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I think everybody here knows that it's much easier to stun a target than to kill it - simply because you only need a "wounded" result to stun someone.
One of my players however used that way to much to his advantage. He usualy set his blaster to "stun". After a target was stunned he put his weapon back to "lethal" and killed the now defeseless victim.
As a gamemaster that frustrated me a lot. So I decided to fight fire with fire. In the following adventure one of my NPC's used the same tactic as described above. So I stunned the PC very fast. Than I looked at his player and said: "You know that I could kill your character now, right?" Well, he wasn't pleased. 
So I offered him an alternative: "Stop with that - then I'll do so, too - or we can use my new custom stun rules." He agreed to the latter and that's how it goes:
| Code: | When blasters are set on stun, or when characters are attacked by weapons designated as “stun only,“ these rules are used. Note that weapons set on stun retain their normal damage codes, but use the table below for effect.
Damage Roll Strength Roll By: Effect
0-3 -
4-8 1D Stun
9-12 2D Stun
13-15 Unconscious
All die codes (except Strength) are reduced by 1D for each stun. Stuns are cumulative within a round.
If the number of stuns taken in one round exceeds the characters’s Dexterity, that character is immobile. Immobile characters are not unconscious, but they can take no Dexterity skill actions while immobile. If they have dice remaining in any other attributes, however, they can take those types of actions.
If the number of stuns ever exceeds a character’s stamina, that character is knocked unconscious. |
These rules originally were presented in a Star Wars 1st Edition adventure. I simply converted them to 2nd Edition - revised and expanded.
Cheers
Sven
P.S.: My player now uses stun damage only when it's neccessary. |
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Ragnar
Commander
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 371
Location: Vacaville, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| one thing about your players old tactic...if he actually killed people after they were stunned and unconscious, even if they were evil, generally that would warrant a Dark Side Point because you are murdering a person when you don't necessarily have to. You could always threat DSPs if that issue comes up again. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragnar wrote: | | one thing about your players old tactic...if he actually killed people after they were stunned and unconscious, even if they were evil, generally that would warrant a Dark Side Point because you are murdering a person when you don't necessarily have to. You could always threat DSPs if that issue comes up again. |
Officially you don't get dark side points for evil acts unless you're force sensitive or you spend a force point to commit the evil act. I know not everybody plays with those rules but some do which means players can be as evil as they like as long as they aren't force sensitive and/or don't spend a force point to do it.
Stunning is supposed to be a quick and easy way to down enemies. The downside has always been it's temporary nature. It only lasts 2d6 minutes which means in the midst of a prolonged firefight people might recover.
If someone abuses the stunned rules I suggest you stop allowing that player to roll for the stun time and roll it yourself behind a screen.
Also it's just possible that pain would adrenalise someone enough to recover from a stun shot. So players shouldn't be able to take it for granted that a stunned character will just lie back and die if they are shot once stunned.
Nice idea of stunning the person who kept stunning his enemies then killing them. I'd of had him captured and tortured for a while. Then maybe he'd think twice before trying it again if it happened to him a few times |
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative stun rule |
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| Feyladil wrote: | ...After a target was stunned he put his weapon back to "lethal" and killed the now defeseless victim.
As a gamemaster that frustrated me a lot. |
You're nicer than I am. I've always felt what goes around comes around. I'd have seen to it one of the people the PC had "killed" survived his coup de grace, and after a couple of months to recover, came gunning for the PC. THEN allowed the NPC and his henchmen to stun and finish off the PC.
The next character always finds another way.
As for dark side points - I've always awarded a dark side point for murder. But killing a declared enemy in war is not murder...even if you stun him first.
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Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace |
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Feyladil
Ensign
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Aachen, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, maybe I'm a bit to nice. 
However I'm playing with friends and I don't want the game to be a reason to destroy a friendship. That sounds drastically but in that special case I described earlier that could have happened.
There's one more good thing about that new stun rule. It makes it much more difficult to stun someone. Very good thing for those "bring XY to me, but unharmed." adventures - from a GM's point of view. 
Cheers
Sven |
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Ragnar
Commander
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 371
Location: Vacaville, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: |
Stunning is supposed to be a quick and easy way to down enemies. The downside has always been it's temporary nature. It only lasts 2d6 minutes which means in the midst of a prolonged firefight people might recover.
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If you get shot while you're stunned/unconscious I'm pretty sure you don't get to roll your strength to soak damage...that may be a house rule by MOG, but i think it is the official. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragnar wrote: | | If you get shot while you're stunned/unconscious I'm pretty sure you don't get to roll your strength to soak damage...that may be a house rule by MOG, but i think it is the official. |
I can understand being able to slit someones throat (Presuming their species has a throat) and automatically kill them but I cant see why a blaster shot would nessesarily do more damage to a unconsious being than to an aware being. |
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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative stun rule |
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| Volar the Healer wrote: | | As for dark side points - I've always awarded a dark side point for murder. But killing a declared enemy in war is not murder...even if you stun him first. |
I agree, an enemy is an enemy stunned or not, and the act does seem cruel, so yeah give him the dark side point. in fact he could turn out to be a serial killer who's M.O. is to finish his victim after he stunned him. But if I had gotten P.Oed at a player for that same act, I would have Killed him off in the exact same way. 8)
_________________
Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | Ragnar wrote: | | If you get shot while you're stunned/unconscious I'm pretty sure you don't get to roll your strength to soak damage...that may be a house rule by MOG, but i think it is the official. |
I can understand being able to slit someones throat (Presuming their species has a throat) and automatically kill them but I cant see why a blaster shot would nessesarily do more damage to a unconsious being than to an aware being. |
You're unconscious, I get close and squat next to your innert body, open your mouth, put the blaster in...BLAM! and your armor is useless so no help there, plus you should keep in mind that no matter how tough someone is, a bullet in the head is a bullet in the head...DEAD 8)
As a GM if one of my player makes a called shot and over comes the penalties I apply, If he aimed at the head then they usualy kill instantly, but same goes for the enemies they face.
_________________
Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy
Last edited by Hellstorm on Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Feyladil wrote: | Well, maybe I'm a bit to nice.
However I'm playing with friends and I don't want the game to be a reason to destroy a friendship. That sounds drastically but in that special case I described earlier that could have happened
Cheers
Sven |
You shouldn't have to worry about your friendship, your friend should understand that your doing this for their enjoyment but you may want to give them a little freedom, ask what they want their character to become (especialy the one doing the killing, maybe he wants his character to be evil or something)
_________________
Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Hellstorm wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | Ragnar wrote: | | If you get shot while you're stunned/unconscious I'm pretty sure you don't get to roll your strength to soak damage...that may be a house rule by MOG, but i think it is the official. |
I can understand being able to slit someones throat (Presuming their species has a throat) and automatically kill them but I cant see why a blaster shot would nessesarily do more damage to a unconsious being than to an aware being. |
You're unconscious, I get close and squat next to your innert body, open your mouth, put the blaster in...BLAM! and your armor is useless so no help there, plus you should keep in mind that no matter how tough someone is, a bullet in the head is a bullet in the head...DEAD 8) |
A blaster shot isn't a bullet it's superheated gases contained within a magnetic field. If you want to have your blaster inside someone's mouth so that when the shot um... explodes at point blank range with your blaster and possibly even your hand also vulnerable to being damaged by the same shot be my guest.
Besides you don't (in character) know how long anyone who is stunned is going to be out for do you really want to be prying open the mouth of a Togorian or a Noghri when it wakes up?
Also remember not all species are the same the Cha'wen'he have three heads And lets see your character pry that unconcious Hutt's mouth open
Sure a lot of times you can kill an unconcious opponent without trouble but it is by no means a sure thing so characters should be just a little wary of doing it all the time |
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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | Hellstorm wrote: | | Esoomian wrote: | | Ragnar wrote: | | If you get shot while you're stunned/unconscious I'm pretty sure you don't get to roll your strength to soak damage...that may be a house rule by MOG, but i think it is the official. |
I can understand being able to slit someones throat (Presuming their species has a throat) and automatically kill them but I cant see why a blaster shot would nessesarily do more damage to a unconsious being than to an aware being. |
You're unconscious, I get close and squat next to your innert body, open your mouth, put the blaster in...BLAM! and your armor is useless so no help there, plus you should keep in mind that no matter how tough someone is, a bullet in the head is a bullet in the head...DEAD 8) |
A blaster shot isn't a bullet it's superheated gases contained within a magnetic field. If you want to have your blaster inside someone's mouth so that when the shot um... explodes at point blank range with your blaster and possibly even your hand also vulnerable to being damaged by the same shot be my guest.
Besides you don't (in character) know how long anyone who is stunned is going to be out for do you really want to be prying open the mouth of a Togorian or a Noghri when it wakes up?
Also remember not all species are the same the Cha'wen'he have three heads And lets see your character pry that unconcious Hutt's mouth open
Sure a lot of times you can kill an unconcious opponent without trouble but it is by no means a sure thing so characters should be just a little wary of doing it all the time |
A bullet in the head is a bullet in the head is an expresion meaning that no matter how tough some one is a lethal blow will kill him anyway
and if your affraid of having your blaster explonde on you...pop in a thermal detonator, problem solved.
And unless your character is in fact a turtle if you stun someone and you don't have time to reach him before he wakes up...what use is it to stun someone?
The Cha'wen'he may be big but that doesn't mean you can't open their mouths, after all if all heads are unconscious then there's no muscle resistance to keep the mouths shut.
As for using that method all the time, as a GM (like Volar the Healer mentioned) I would turn that method on him to punish the player if he did it too often (unless he was some sort of serial killer or the likes and it was his trade mark).
8)
_________________
Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Hellstorm wrote: | A bullet in the head is a bullet in the head is an expresion meaning that no matter how tough some one is a lethal blow will kill him anyway
and if your affraid of having your blaster explonde on you...pop in a thermal detonator, problem solved.
And unless your character is in fact a turtle if you stun someone and you don't have time to reach him before he wakes up...what use is it to stun someone?
The Cha'wen'he may be big but that doesn't mean you can't open their mouths, after all if all heads are unconscious then there's no muscle resistance to keep the mouths shut.
As for using that method all the time, as a GM (like Volar the Healer mentioned) I would turn that method on him to punish the player if he did it too often (unless he was some sort of serial killer or the likes and it was his trade mark).
8) |
What I am trying to say is that if as a GM it annoys you when a player does this you should remember that attacking someone while they are stunned is not always going to go as planned. Add a little uncertainty in to make the players nervious. Who knows when people are faking. It's not like the NPCs all have flashing neon signs on their backs telling everyone what their health levels are like |
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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Are there any species that aren't affected by stun or have a high resistance to it ? 8)
_________________
Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | What I am trying to say is that if as a GM it annoys you when a player does this you should remember that attacking someone while they are stunned is not always going to go as planned. Add a little uncertainty in to make the players nervious. Who knows when people are faking. It's not like the NPCs all have flashing neon signs on their backs telling everyone what their health levels are like |
Even if the PC suceeds, his actions are not Star Wars. Such a character will undoubtedly pile up enemies quickly. If only because witnesses keep reporting it to the authorities or the murdered NPC's friends/family.
"We have powerful friends. You're going to regret this..."
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Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace |
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