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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14213
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | Yeah, it is, but, in our games anyway, the Jedi were almost always seriously gimped compared to the other equally leveled characters, this balanced things out a little bit and, more importantly, kept the game moving along. I kind of find separating slows the action down somewhat. |
Was that cause the 'jedi' players were bumping up their force skills, or some other reason?
| Quote: | | Granted, he may have seen the first one coming, but he uses the power four times in rapid succession with no chance to use the slow-but-sure, one-skill-per-round method on the follow-up uses. Then again OB1 probably has enough skill dice not to worry about a few MAPs.Laughing |
Good point...
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Ankhanu wrote: | | Yeah, it is, but, in our games anyway, the Jedi were almost always seriously gimped compared to the other equally leveled characters, this balanced things out a little bit and, more importantly, kept the game moving along. I kind of find separating slows the action down somewhat. |
Was that cause the 'jedi' players were bumping up their force skills, or some other reason? |
Usually due to raising powers and otherwise being forced to be inactive in the scenes. |
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scott2978
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| CmdrDarmic wrote: | | scott2978 wrote: | | I disagree that OB1 didn't know ahead of time that he was going to use Affect Mind. The 2 uses I can think of, in Mos Eisely on the Stormtroopers and on the Death Star tractor beam catwalk, he had ample time to prepare. Luke probly saw the Stormtrooper blockade a long way off, and OB1 probly knew he might have to use AM to get past some imps on the Death Star and had it prepared. |
Granted, he may have seen the first one coming, but he uses the power four times in rapid succession with no chance to use the slow-but-sure, one-skill-per-round method on the follow-up uses. Then again OB1 probably has enough skill dice not to worry about a few MAPs.:lol:
| scott2978 wrote: | | But the real clincher is this: remember that in SWRE:2E one "round" is any amount of time that you feel is apropriate as the GM. It says right in the rule book that you should take artistic license with exactly how long one round is. So, maybe you're bringin up all three skills in 3 consecutive 1 second long rounds! |
Which is, in effect, what we are doing by allowing all of the skills to be used in a single round with no MAPs. The mechanics are different, but the effect is identical.
| scott2978 wrote: | | I use a different method depending on what timeline the game is in. for GCW time, I want the life of a Jedi wannabe to be really tough. No trainers, no holocrons, no silly stuff. The Jedi are gone. Yoda, Ben, and eventually Luke, that's it. So a Jedi PC in the GCW timeline has to use one action for each skill. But in a game set during prequal times, I'd allow a "one die" method, due to the more prolific natuer of Force knowledge, and the more prolific nature of Force using enemies. |
An interesting approach, but tell me: Has the Force changed during this time frame? As the Force is constant, it must be the Force users that are the source of the difficulties. Will the Force users always suffer this penalty, or will there come a time when they are more familiar/comfortable with the Force and can begin using it in the more familiar/comfortable way?
Don't get me wrong, the approach is valid and I like it. I just wonder what the overall justification is and what kind of mechanics you are using to represent the changes.
BTW, what does GCW stand for? |
All good questions CmdrDarmic!
First off, consider the possibility that OB1 may only be using Affect Mind once, not 4 times, on the Stormtrooper. Multiple hand gestures does not conclusively mean that he used the power multiple times. For instance, what if the intended effect of his single use was "I make the Stormtrooper think he can trust what I tell him." There are a lot of possibilities. Without the book at my side however, I can't tell if this power can be kept "up". If so then he could just be keeping the power up and updating the effect each round.
Then on the other hand I totally agree that with as many dice as OB1 has, the measely 2D penalty for using all three skills would be trivial for him, especially if he was using the force. Then he could possibly use all three skills on four seperate attempts in a single round! (that's only an 11 D penalty on the final roll, and OB1 would have a total of about 20D to begin with if he used the Force!!!)
Now about letting Jedi use only one die roll, the factors I use are these:
In my GCW games (GCW means Galactic Civil War btw) there are no Jedi. There are almost no dark side force users either. So, in a game like that a Jedi PC can get REALLY powerful, so to help limit his power I enforce the MAP.
In a Republic era game, there are plenty of force users around. So, using one roll wouldn't be overpowered because the enemies can do it too. And believe me, nothing limits a PCs power like knowing that anything they do to the enemy, the enemy WILL do back to them! Headshots anyone? *evil GM cackle*
So of course, in another GM's game where jedi roam free during the civil war, one could use the one die roll method without overpowering the PC. In the end it doesn't really matter much to the player, because as long as you're consistant they won't care if the "other" game has different rules as long as both PC and NPC have to abide by the same rules in the same game.
Some of this might sound like a contradiction, but I've only recently allowed ANY jedi PCs into my GCW era campaign. So far to date the campaign has been running off and on since 2005 and there have been exactly 1 Jedi PCs, that just started in November. Even though things are tough for him, he loves being the only Jedi in the Galaxy :) it sort of puts him up there with Luke and the Emperor as being one of the special few. Of course he's hunted relentlessly, not just by the Empire but also by the news media! :) LOL! I'm going way off topic now, let me close by saying that in-game you don't really have to explain why the system is different if everyone has the same rules in that game. The players understand that it's for game balance, and that all NPCs have the same restrictions they do, and that's always been enough in my gaming group to keep them happy.
Scott |
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CmdrDarmic
Cadet
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Conroe, TX (N. of Houston)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, I think I read about your campaign in another thread. It sounds like fun.
Thanks for answering all my questions. I like the thought you have put into this. It is all well reasoned out, and it has me thinking about playing style all the more (which was the original intent of this thread).
I haven't been playing in a SW campaign since ours ended just before last Christmas.  So, I am eagerly awaiting the chance to get back into a game.
I love this site. Thanks for keeping the game alive, and keep the comments coming.
BTW, I just downloaded Gry's Force Powers book. I think I will go spend some quality time with it. That little Utai is amazing! Keep up the good work. |
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Ankhanu wrote: | | The official rule is multiple uses. We initially did it that way, but switched to single use years back. |
Agreed that it is btb to count all skills for Force powers being kept up, but as a question, why did you switch to single 'd' off regardless of whether it was a single, double or triple force skill?? |
Ah ha! I think we may have had a miscommunication earlier around this point. If I'm re-reading this correctly, it sounds like you took what I said to mean that when raising something lik eAffect Mind, requiring att three powers a single roll was made to raise the power. What I meant is that rolling each part of the power counted as a single action (raising Affect Mind) as opposed to individual actions (for each Force Skill). All three skills would be rolled, just without MAPs, unless other actions were also being performed (ie. dodge). |
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