Hyperspace obstacles and other ships

[ebertran]

Hello.

The books always use examples of pirates stalking hyperspace routes waiting to drop an asteroid or something in the way of a ship to attack it... Meaning that objects in the way in real space normally affect travelling ships.

Now, my question is the following:

If I leave Coruscant towards Corellia with a X1 hyperspace, and Han Solo leaves 10 minutes later with his X.5, will he bump into me?

His nav computer plots the same course mine will, no? Will his sensors detect my ship up ahead and push him out into real space? He can't just move out of the way, because his path is based on obstacles in real space, obstacles that my nav computer also accounted for, so we are following the same linear path at the same time.

How can two ships fly through hyperspace on the same route at the same time and avoid each other, when the nav computers plot the same course? Have any of you dealt with this in your games?

[darthomer09]

I never really play out hyperspace travel. In my games its just something that kind of happens. The only time something like that would occur in one of my games is for plot usage.
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Rebel Uprisings

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[Gry Sarth]

Ships don't have enough mass to block hyperspace travel (unless you're talking about the really gargantuan ones). Bumping into a ship in hyperspace would really be a freak accident, a one in a billion misfortune, even if you're traveling in the same path.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[ebertran]

But then how does a faster one overtake a slower one if they are travelling on the same exact linear path, plotted by their computers?

Is there steering in hyperspace?

The impression I get is that the computer plots, and the ship takes itself on the route... there is no manual controlling involved, is there?

[Gry Sarth]

Space is vast. Even if you're travelling the same path, it doesn't necessarily mean you're on the exact same line.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[cheshire]

You would have to have the exact same entry point and the exact same exit point. Or at least close enough that you would occupy the same space. Take a look at the rebel fleet going into hyperspace at RotJ. Even with the same trajectory, they were still beside each other in hyperspace.

[ebertran]

Right, but then how do pirates know where to put something in the way to throw you back to real space?

Don't nav computers tell you where to do your jump from, and where the exit point is, based on routes?

Doesn't everyone travelling from Coruscant to Corellia jump from the same exact point outside of Coruscant, based on known navigational routes on the charts?

[MA-3PO]

To jump to hyperspace you have to be far enough away from a planets gravity well. There is no specific entry/exit location in each system. The exception might be really busy systems like Coruscant where space is really crowded and they have to assign entry/exit paths much like an airport assigns runways. This is to manage heavy traffic, not because all ships have to use a specific jump point to get into hyperspace.

Pirates will generally know where ships are travelling and place an object in the area. This doesn't have to be exactly in the physical path of the ship because the safety routines on nav computers generally drop you to real space if it detects an object in the vicinity of your trajectory.

[Grimace]

Some people have touched on the reasoning, but I will expand some of that.

When you plot a course from A to B, the calculations take into account the current location of the ship plotting the course, and then picks a relative point at the destination that is generall nearest the origination point. The nav computer picks the point usually, but it can also be chosen by the operator of the nav computer. That way you can have fleets enter into hyperspace and exit in the same general area in order to present themselves in a cohesive force.

While traveling, those ships take the same general couse, but the specific points along the path are going to be different. Do this for an example. Cut a piece of string 3 feet long. Place two balls 2 feet apart and then put 3 rocks randomly between the two balls. Now take the string and run it from one ball to the other, making sure that the string doesn't go over the rocks. Note how the string is laying when you've completed the path. Can you move the string a little this way and that way around the rocks? Can you vary the path to take a different route that still gets you there? That's how hyperspace calculations work. Now two nav computers are going to plot the exact same course, as there will always be little variances in the path (string) going between A and B. One nav computer may even plot a completely different route that goes "left" around a mass instead of "right" around the mass, but gets the ship to the location in the same amount of time.

So a ship running into another ship....about the same chance as blowing up a Death star with proton torpedo--- oh wait... about the same chance of a snowflake lasting a day in the Judland Wastes.

Now, how do pirates grab ships?

It generally takes a mass significantly greater than the ship to have the safety measures kick in and drop the ship out of hyperspace. Generally, I assume probably 10-50 times the mass. That way you don't have Capital ships pulling transports out with the mere mass of the ship. As was mentioned, though, a ship like the Eclipse may be massive enough that it could affect an X-wing that happened to be flying by in hyperspace. Most times, though, pirates use large asteroids, towed to the location by tractor beam. If you get enough bulk asteroids in an area, you can cover enough of those "lanes" (string variations) to pull a freighter or a fighter out of hyperspace. You're not likely to pull out many capital ships, but what might happen (and is the threat of pirates) is that a big ship might "detect" the mass, and even though it isn't endangered by the mass, it might drop out of hyperspace to clear the lane of whatever is creating the mass. Imperials did this during the Empire, and New Republic ships would likely do it afterwards. A pirate, sitting there waiting for a merchant freighter to be pulled out by it's mini-asteroid belt, suddenly sees the immense form of a Star Destroyer appear, and the day just got really bad for the pirate.

Now, back routes and such is where pirates are likely to set up. Main routes are too heavily travelled by big ships, and its too likely the military will show up to clean up the mess in the hyperlanes, but on the bad routes, it might be a month before a capital ship makes the trip, and during that time a pirate might be able to snag a couple of freighters and a smuggler or two.

Other pirates are more "bold" and will wait to attack ships to arrive in-system at the "usual" spots for ships. If you've got one inhabited planet in the system, the most likely point of arrival is an area outside of the gravity well of the planet and a safe distance from any moons or other satellites in the area. Pirates may not know the EXACT point, but they have a good idea of a general area, especially if most traffic originates from a particular system. A to B traffic is going to arrive in generally the same area, contrary to C to B when C is on the opposite side of B compared to A. Traffic from C will show up on the other side of B. So if you have a system on the end of route, you're going to have a majority of your traffic coming from the system immediately prior, and can therefore get a good idea of the general location most ships will be arriving.

Granted, you may have people popping in at other locations, either because they're coming from some other system, or purposefully coming in from a different route, or because they want to be extra sneaky or extra cautious and come in way outside the solar system and then move in under regular engines, but most traffic will be arriving in the same general area. Basically, what could be considered an "arrival point" or (in reverse), a "jump point".

How does a faster one catch a slower ship? They don't...in hyperspace. Generally how it works, when you have such a case, you have ship run away into hyperspace, and another ship either know where the fleeing ship is going, or is able to project possible destinations based on last known trajectory (basically, only big military ships can do the latter, as they have the gear for it), and then they plot a hyperspace course for that system. If the second ship is faster, they rush through hyperspace and arrive ahead of the first ship. Then the second ship waits, and when the first ship comes out of hyperspace, the second ships hopes it's close enough to detect, shoot at, and destroy/capture that ship. The second ship doesn't actually come up to the first ship in hyperspace and get into a battle there. Star Wars hyperspace isn't like Babylon 5 hyperspace, and isn't like Star Trek warp.

So, hopefully that explains a lot of questions about hyperspace and how pirates do things, and generally how it works. I won't get into the "fast" hyperlanes right now, as that's really a different subject, but that should give you some clarification.

[garhkal]

[cimja revaz]