What to do?

[Aise]

Ok well I have started my first full-fledged SWD6 campaign. And I am about 7 weeks into it. Now let me get something out of the way: I hate light side Jedi. I just can't stand their goody-goody ways. So I decide not to put my campaign in the clone wars like I was planning but to put it in a time era where I could make up the rules so that the PCs can't pull up wookieepedia and show me that I had the wrong social status of the Rodian Race. I choose 1004 A.B.Y. a little further ahead then the comics or books have reached i think. And since I hate Jedi I made them extremely week, there was another purge by an unknown dark lord. But to make it fair I made the new chancellor or the Reunited Republic as I call it, a Jedi himself as well as the leader of the Jedi council.

Now I have a player in my group who in his personality says, "Trys to never hurt anyone. extreamly light side" that’s a quote, spelling mistakes and all. He's had to miss 3 outta the 7 sessions so is reasonably weaker then the others who got some decent equipment on a mission. Now that he’s back he’s really starting to annoy me as a GM. When ever he roll a 1 on the wild die, he complains and not in a like, "oh s---" kind of way in more of a "This is so stupid D20 is better" and then he stays moody for then next 30 min making everyone in the group lose their momentum cus he mumbles and doesn’t even really pay attention. Now if this were ANY other player I’d kick him from the group like that, but he’s a good friend and actually got me started RPing, I also happen to see him every week. I've tried telling him to stop complaining, and tried giving less character points, and even lessening my soak rolls behind the screen against him so he, instead of not hitting at all, stuns the enemy.

What do you think I should do?

[Jedi Skyler]

I understand that it's really hard to do this-especially to a good friend. The bottom line is that my response is actually a combination- I'd give him one more talk... telling him that he's bringing the whole group down with his bellyaching. Cite your bias against the Jedi, explaining what a huge favor you did him by simply letting him play one in the first place. Heck, you could even take a side poll amongst the other gamers. Let them know your intentions, and if the guy thinks you're being too overbearing, tell him he needs to find another game. It could even be one of yours, if you're running more than one.

Or, you could simply kill him off. I'm sure a resourceful GM could come up with a creative and sly way to off this character without looking like he was trying to...

And when he stats up a new character, NO JEDI. If he can't play one effectively now, he's not going to learn by getting killed, I imagine...

[Jamfke]

I'd ask him what he hates about D6. Has your friend only played D20? He may just be having a hard time adjusting to the system.
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[Aise]

Well he does play D20, he tried to run a DnD campaign but no one realy liked it cus he didn't make it fun(one problem i have if that he trys to keep things serrious all the time). I did give him the book for over a month, in hopes that he'd read it through but he didn't which pissed me off even more.

And 1 last thing that is realy starting to make me angry si that when my PCs begin to tell their "lasts nights session" stories to people who aren't in my group but are gamers like us he always adds in stuff like, "Yeah i should of beat the dark jedi if Jon wasen't such a bad GM." And that crosses the line i think.

[PsiberDragon]

Personally, I'd tell him: "Look... this is NOT d20... it is NOT D&D. If you don't like the system, and can't adjust to it, then don't play. If you WANT to play, then stop with the whining - it's annoying me and the other players. I understand how d6 isn't for everyone, but, for me, I like it for Star Wars over d20 for (fill in whatever reason). This is not to say that I don't like d20 because it (fill in again). But, this IS MY game. If you'd like, by all means start up a d20 Star Wars game, and run it your way, and I'd be glad to play if you want me. But, as it stands, why not just give it a chance, stop whining and try to start playing your character. If you can't do any of the above, then... well... don't play."

That way, it's up to him as to whether or not to continue. You've given him the choices - let him decide.
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[Jamfke]

I agree, if he's bellyaching because nobody liked his style then he needs to suck it up and get over it. He shouldn't be taking it out on you and your game just because everyone else liked it and not his. If you can talk to him civilly and get him to at least try to make an adjustment, then let him stay, otherwise, give him the boot!
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[Ankhanu]

The consensus seems to be "give him a chance, if he messes it, send him packing (civilly)" This is something I agree with too.
There's no reason why something like this should lead to too much of an awkward situation, if handled properly with consideration.

Oh, and...

[Gry Sarth]

Well, I don't think I have a lot to add to this that the others haven't said already. But anyway, you have my sentiments, brother. Friendship and roleplaying colliding is never a pleasant thing...

Recently I was starting a Lord of the Rings campaign, and was taking one of my friends through character creation. Now, I'm very touchy about my LOTR gaming, because it's really hard to keep it safe from D&Disms, and I really want to preserve the right flavor to the game. Now, when this friend of mine started thinking about his character, I was very pleased. he wanted to do a wise dwarf with some magic lore and all that jazz. But then when he started actually statting him, it brought me to dispair. He insisted in discarding all the skills that would fit his character concept, in favour of the kewl combat skills, and "oh, look at that war axe, that does a lot more damage than what you suggested, I want one of those". So, his attitute bummed me out, and I knew he would be disruptive to the kind of game I wanted to create. So in time I phased him out of the game, pretended it had fizzed and so I'm going to start the campaign without him. It's unfortunate, I know, but some things just can't be fixed....
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[scott2978]

I can tell you one horror story regarding friendship and role playing. I was running a Stargate SG1 campaign with 5 friends. One of them (who I'll refer to as Problem Child) was very similar to your friend in that he was always causing trouble. He argued a lot, and did that same annoying thing where a player tries to bring some outside logic into the game (like the example of checking Wookiepedia for consistancy in your game). Finally one of the other players quit the game. I privately asked him why, since everyone was always saying how much they liked the game. He told me in private that Problem Child and his frustrating attitude was why he was quitting. For me that was the last straw, so I canceled the game. About a week later, we all got together again, minus Problem Child, and started a D&D game. The difference in the climate of the two games was instantly and glaringly obvious. The D&D game without Problem Child was like pure heaven compared to the SG1 game that we all thought we liked. But, there was a downside.

When Problem Child found out that we were gaming without him he had a real bad tantrum and stopped speaking to all of us for over two months. Eventually he and I worked out our differences but it just hasn't been the same, we hardly ever hang out anymore. There are some players that still won't have anything to do with him anymore though.

The bottom line is that if he is really truly your friend, he wouldn't be causing you grief. If you warn him and he throws a fit, then whatever happens, know that the true nature of your relationship is coming to the surface. If you two are really as close as you say (and think), then he will be ok.

So I say warn him, in a tactful and friendly manner, then boot him if he continues to bring everyone down. Beyond that just let nature take it's course.

Of course, an alternative is to play two games. Ask him to run his own game as a GM, perhaps alternating game sessions between the two of you. At least that way if his companionship is worth too much for you to lose, then he can drop out of your game and still be in one with you. But a word of warning - DON'T try to do the same thing to him that he did to your game to "teach him a lesson". It WILL backfire.

I really don't envy your position buddy. Good luck.

Scott

[Grimace]

I'm going to offer some slightly different alternatives compared to everyone else's thoughts. It's not that I think what others suggested won't work, it's that I feel there are TWO people who need to change, not just one.

First off, you wrote something that made me think "hmmmm.....this could be why there is friction." You don't like light side Jedi, you made that obvious. Your friend does, otherwise he wouldn't be trying to play one. You are the GM. Your own bias is going to overbear on his, as you can do whatever you want, in game and with die rolls, to enforce your bias.

From what I see, the friction isn't being caused solely by the problem player, but by your interaction with him. You want him to quit complaining, he complains that your GMing is bad. Why do you think he is saying that and the others are not? It may be, I don't know for sure as I'm not in your group, that you are (intentional or not) being harder on him because of your obvious dislike for "goody goody" Jedi.

So, rather than issue an ultimatum that he change or else, I suggest making your own effort to MEET HALFWAY. If he makes concessions to not complain about your GMing, you need to make some concessions to go easier on light side Jedi. Pay attention to how you handle his situations vs. how you handle interaction with other character types that you like and prefer. You may notice that there's a difference and THAT is why this player thinks you're a bad GM. He can't see when you fudge dice rolls to give him a break, he can only see how you directly interact with him compared to how you interact with the other player characters. That is where he's making a basis of determination.

Also, if you really want to play D6 Star Wars, you should make the effort to foster good players, rather than drive them away. There's no quicker way to kill a game or game group than to tell players "my way or the highway". You may soon find yourself with too few players or no players at all. Loaning the main book to them might work for some people, but not everyone learns by reading...some learn by doing. Perhaps you need to sit down, one on one with this player, and run him through a very short, "Explanation" adventure. Take the opportunity to make sure that your player understands why he is rolling certain things, and how the dice work, and how multiple action penalties work, and so on. Making him understand the rules by showing him how they work may be a huge step in relieving the complaining from him. Sometimes people complain when they don't understand something, and explaining it can do wonders.

So, if this person really is a good friend, and you don't want to lose that friendship, perhaps moving away from your own bias, and taking the time to work with the player to explain the rules so that he understands them, as well as talking to him about it and explaining how his complaining is sorely dampening your friendship and enjoyment of his presence in the game, will help out the entire situation. Don't go into it thinking you're right and he's wrong, as that will lead to sure failure to keep him part of the group. Look at it how YOU can help, and maybe even change a little, to make it so that everyone in the group can have fun.

Then, if you've made concessions and he still doesn't change, you are completely vindicated in booting him from the group. Realize, though, that doing so will likely damage your friendship with him. So keep that in mind before you make quick decisions.

Hope this helps.

[Aise]

[garhkal]

Does he seem to only complain when he 1's the wild die, or at other times?
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[Kayle Skolaris]

Aise, bottom line for me is this: if he's playing a Light Sider in name only, enforce the Dark Side Points rules to the letter. He's got 5 points right now. One more and his character, by the rules, is gone. And he should be rolling to keep that character. Has he been? If not, tell him how close he is to losing the character and then if he doesn't change, do what the rules tell you to do... turn the character into an NPC and make him create a new one.

[Aise]

[Ankhanu]

You should make clear what is made clear in any game rule book... The GM is in charge of the story. With that, the GM can play with setting to suite a story, this includes, but is not limited to, going against or altering canon.


Wookieepedia should not be an issue