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This is a stupid question so don't make fun of me...
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Soniv
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, it makes for an entirely new problem: Without the skill dice as a delimiter, how does one mandate how many skills a person can list for familiarity? If there's no set limit, a person could just find and list every skill in existance. A further explanation of the house rule would help considerably.
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Allst Beamem
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, this is the way I do it.

Lets say you are using the Young Senatorial template, and wile on a space transport your ship gets damaged and you decide to try and fix it.

Well the young senatorial template does not come with "space transports rep" on it, so, In my game you would roll your tec attribute minus 1D becouse you dont know a hydrospanner from you arse Laughing

But sence the template does come with blaster, if you didnt put any build dice in it you would get to roll your full atrabute die becouse you at least have some familuarity (spelling?) with it.
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Jamfke
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like a reasonable house rule to me.
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Soniv
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But it only works when using pre-made templates. If you're using a background that doesn't fit into a pre-existing template, what then? How does one determine how many or what type of skills one is familar with?
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a question of "how many?" It's a question of, "What specific skills could I reasonably expect a character of my profession/ experience/ background to know?"

And realistically, you're not going to think of everything at character creation necessarily. Even people who've gamed for decades will still leave skills off their sheets at creation, only later to slap themselves upside the head and say, "Duh! My guy ought to know how to do ___________ (insert skill here)!"

If it's plausible, the GM will probably even let you add it to the sheet. Granted, it'll only be at Attribute level, but who cares? At least your character can reasonably be expected to know how to do it, when the need arises.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I do think this house rule should have alimiting factor to the number of untrained skills you can add to your character sheet. Otherwise some would say "well, I'm making a bounty hunter/pilot who used to be a noble, so I should have these skills, and these skills, and this group as well, and those others..."
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Jamfke
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But...couldn't you be a Bounty Hunter Pilot from a Noble family...Very Happy
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. It really needs to be PLAUSIBLE.

As long as your GM isn't along the same lines as the judge who awarded over 100 thousand dollars to the little old lady who sued McDonalds after she burned herself on the coffee...
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vong
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

personally i think that you can use all the skills untrained (except the advanced ones). haveing 4d in your dex shows how agile you are. so even if you didnt write down brawling parry, someoen with 4d will be beter at dodgeing someone going to punch them then someone who has 2d dex. getting teh values up shows your general training in that area, so you would still be able to show basic knowledge in all thoes skills.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamfke wrote:
But...couldn't you be a Bounty Hunter Pilot from a Noble family...Very Happy


Sure you can, but just because you have a complex background it shouldn't allow you more skills than the other PCs.

PS: I just want to note that my point of view in this subject is equal to Vong's. I'm just discussing these house rules for the benefit of those who use it. I still think that a human with Dexterity 4D (as nimble as a human can be) who has never really touched a sword would fare better on a melee combat than a human with Dexterity 3D who once played with a plastic sword when he was 9.
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Last edited by Gry Sarth on Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Jamfke
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, just being sarcastic there...hence the Very Happy
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masque
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is going to be totally off topic, but:
Jedi Skyler wrote:

As long as your GM isn't along the same lines as the judge who awarded over 100 thousand dollars to the little old lady who sued McDonalds after she burned herself on the coffee...


First off, she got 200 grand AND an additional 2.7 million in punitive damages, although that was reduced to 480,000. Then it was settled, and the final numbers aren't public.
Secondly, if you look at the facts of that case, that lady deserved every penny she got. Third degree burns and skin grafts are expensive to take care of, and McDonald's was just being stupid. http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soniv wrote:
I've never heard of the unfamiliarity penalties for unlisted skills. I always figured that if a skill wasn't assigned dice, it was treated the same as the attribute no matter if it was on the template or not. If this is official, could you direct me to where this rule is listed?


Quote:
Actually that last bit by garkhal is a house rule. As far as I remember there are no official rules assigning penalties for untrained skills


Which to me was a major oversite. I feel many skills should have penalties assigned, for untrained users. Like many of the knowledge, tech and some of the dex and mech skills. Almost all other game systems i know of (adnd, whitewolf) has it where unknown skills are penalized, so i feel SW should as well.
Like an untrained user of repulsorlift vehichles would get say, a +10 penalty to his operation rolls, or say someone without scholar would get +15 to the diff for siffting through information he is researching..

Quote:
So, while it really SUCKS sometimes, it's great for realism. Plus, it can add for some hilarious game stories down the line...


Thanks Skyler.. And yes i have had much hilarity for some of those situations (like someone who had 2d+1 mech, and NO ship operation skills, become the pilot as everyone else was outcold....)

Quote:
However, it makes for an entirely new problem: Without the skill dice as a delimiter, how does one mandate how many skills a person can list for familiarity? If there's no set limit, a person could just find and list every skill in existance. A further explanation of the house rule would help considerably.


No problem.
Dex- Depending on the template, it will have at the minimum; dodge, ONE of the 2 parries (whether melee or brawl), blaster (or other weapon use skill, like missile weapon), and 1 additional skill. Some may have more, but imo as a base level, 2 of the reaction skills, and 1 offensive one.

Know- here is where it gets tricky. There are some templates in use which imo SHOULD have skills here, but don;t Like with the bounty hunter and no possessing Law enforcement, cultures, bureaucracy (for pushing those forms to get the bounty through... But in general, 4-6 skills linked to primary job... like for a scout = survival, planetary systems, cutures, alien species, and either languages OR bureaucracy...

Mech - This one is easier to figure out. Unless the template focus is for an operator (pilot), then they should have 3-5 support skills. Like shields, cap/starship gunnery, sensors. For most of the more 'estoric operation skills' like walker ops, powersuit ops and such, they should ONLY be on the templates where those would be part of the character's backstory/ primary job... Onei would say is generic enough to be for anyone, repulsor ops (since speeder units use this).

Per - This one is easier... Bargain, most people should have this. Con and command (along with forgery) though are imo specific for those whosjobs require them (like officials for command, fringers for con and forgery). Hide and sneak, are similar, in that only those with 'sneaky' type jobs should get them. Persuasion, is like bargain in it should be available to any template. Investigations and search, are not generic enough, but still open to most. So all in all, 3 main skills, as a base (bargain, persuasion, search), with the others comining in for specialty jobs.

Str- Since this attribute has few skills even associated with it, not having that many assigned from the get go is easy. Brawl, should only go to those combat oriented people. Climb/jump should go to those with outdoor's motifs. Lifting to those with "menial" jobs, like the Sludir routsabout (iirc this is one from platts starport guide). Stamina, is a good one for anyone, unless their 'job path' is an office/desk... And swimming is the only one i don;t see everyone being open for (initially). So all in all, brawl and swimming are the only 2 here that should not go to all..

Tech - Ahh, we come to the other attribute where it is hard to justify a lot of skills. Pilots and such, SHOULD have a good chunk, like the repair skill to the ship they operate, repair for weapons, shields and 1 other 'craft' similar to their 'focus'. Like for a freighter pilot, either go with repulsorlift repair or fighter repair. Cap ship stuff should only go to those operators of the cap ships. First aid is generic enough for anyone, along with computer programming and repair. Droid programming/repair, demolitions, security are all 'focused' areas imo and should only be listed on characters who have those 'jobs'. Walker repair and the other estoric vehicle repair skills (hover, ground, jet pack etc) should only go to those who have the similar Operation skill. Armor and blaster (or other weapon) repair, should only go to techie types who are military focused (like bounty hunters, mercs)...

So there it is.

Quote:
But it only works when using pre-made templates. If you're using a background that doesn't fit into a pre-existing template, what then? How does one determine how many or what type of skills one is familar with?


That is easy. Lets take this 'comcept' as a base..
I am wishing to play a SWAT type police official, who has gone freelance, after my time was up. So my possible skills would look like;
Dex = Blaster, brawl parry, dodge, grenade, melee (for their batons), melee parry and possibily running.
Know = Streetwise (to know the scum types and thier hideouts, tactics (most likely specialised for small squad operations), cultures (for the planet i am on), languages (if the planet has lots of different species on), intimidation, bureaucracy (for all tha police paperwork i fill out), law enforcement (DUH) and maybe even alien species.
Mech = Sensors, repulsor operations and maybe hover or ground vehicle operations. As a SWAT operative, i don;t see much use for skills under this area.
Per = command is a definate, as is search. Sneak (for infiltrations) and investigations are also good 'secondary' skills. And to round it out, i would say persuasion. Hide con and forgery are the only ones i CANNOT see here.
Str = brawl, climb/jump, and stamina here. Possibily even add in lifting.
Tech = well armor and blaster repair, since all swat fix their own stuff are good ones. And if i was one of our more 'techie type' swat operatives, demolitions (for disarming) and possibily security (for gaining entrance). To round it out, i would add in repulsor lift repair, as i could see this guy fixing his own landspeeder...

Now for that guys' attribute breakdown, i could see going with
Dex - 3d+2
Know - 2d+1
Mech - 2d+1
Per - 3d+1
Str - 3d+2
Tech - 2d+2.

And bob's your uncle, you have a new character template to use...

Which gives me an idea for a new template... Hmm. look for it down below!!
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Orgaloth
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soniv wrote:
But it only works when using pre-made templates. If you're using a background that doesn't fit into a pre-existing template, what then? How does one determine how many or what type of skills one is familar with?


The GM determines what's too much. Also if they have a lot of skills, get them to right a history that explains ever single one. Or just say NO to some of them.
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Pel
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What? So am I the only one who walks around with the rulebook under the arm all day long?!


Nope. Got mine handy too. Plus a smattering of supplements to throw in some neat flavor. Very Happy
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