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renault
Cadet
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Location: lynwood, wa
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 Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:48 am Post subject: |
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well there we go then, quick access to reference materiel wins the day 
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: |
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I nod respectfully to the master. Thanks for the input!
You're right about the dark side, though. It's not about (always, anyway) grandiose, wholesale slaughter- although it just LOVES that! It has to get you to that point first, and to do so it tries to convince you that it has an easier way to achieve what you want done- especially when it can hold up your ideals and tie its methods in with them. |
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I agree. Greed, dishonesty, the dark side they are. It might be a bit harsh to give a whole DSP for some pickpocketing, but if it makes for good roleplaying, then so be it. I personally would give half a DSP. If the character ever did something similar again, I'd round it up to a full one.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I think I agree with Gry here. Sure, the kid is using his skills for personal gain, but he's still a KID. He's only ten, so even with a Jedi Master bringing him up, there's still going to be an "age of accountability" issue here. |
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masque
Captain
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: |
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So does Qui-Gon get a DSP for cheating and gambling in Episode I?
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: |
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He's not doing it for personal gain. He's doing it to free a slave, protect a queen and rescue a planet. Plus, if Watto had not bet on Sebulba, he would still have profitted from all that.
"Either way, you win."
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them." |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Right on, Gry!  |
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Pel
Line Captain
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 983
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Qui'Gon's motivations were personal. He wanted to negotiate a lucrative deal with the Jedi Council on Annie's behalf, then take the standard agent's fee of 30%. And he stood to win big on the outcome of that podrace. Funny nobody ever mentioned Qui'Gon's gambling problem... 
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renault
Cadet
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Location: lynwood, wa
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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in a typical situation the dsp would be harsh, but the scene was extensively roleplayed to establish a high level of trust held by the barabel for the jedi in particular, it was the fact that this trust was violated, in addition to the other factors that made this a darkside act. I'm usually one of the few to none dsp gamemasters, but a jedi lying to a barabel and taking all the money he has seems pretty dark to me kiddies 
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Be like the waters of tatooine
flow endlessly like bespins plain
I am the stand alone clone
republic is my only name |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| Jedi Skyler wrote: | I nod respectfully to the master. Thanks for the input!
You're right about the dark side, though. It's not about (always, anyway) grandiose, wholesale slaughter- although it just LOVES that! It has to get you to that point first, and to do so it tries to convince you that it has an easier way to achieve what you want done- especially when it can hold up your ideals and tie its methods in with them. |
WEll said. IMO the darkside does not just come into play when death is the result. it also loves selfishness, greed, hate etc.. I saw one guy who had 2 dsps on his character, for supporting (financially) a slaver operation..
| Quote: | | Yeah, I think I agree with Gry here. Sure, the kid is using his skills for personal gain, but he's still a KID. He's only ten, so even with a Jedi Master bringing him up, there's still going to be an "age of accountability" issue here. |
if the kid was not a pc, i would agree. BUT since he was, you have to look at it, from that perspective.
Otherwise that pc could get away with doing a heck of a lot of things, because he is 'underage'...
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Kalibarr
Ensign
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Jedi Skyler wrote: | I nod respectfully to the master. Thanks for the input!
You're right about the dark side, though. It's not about (always, anyway) grandiose, wholesale slaughter- although it just LOVES that! It has to get you to that point first, and to do so it tries to convince you that it has an easier way to achieve what you want done- especially when it can hold up your ideals and tie its methods in with them. |
Since I have GMed a whole one time already - I feel I have the necessary credibility to check in on this topic...lol
Jedi Skyler, the argument you make here about the Dark Side holding up your ideals and tying its methods in with them, looks alot like the Dark Side is at work when you are trying for a "good" result, but use an evil "means" or "method" to get it. Would people agree with that? Or does the main purpose need to be evil in order for an act to be from the "Dark Side"?? Because if the method being "bad" means it's a dark act - then Qui-Gon is guilty of that when he messed with the dice - good goal, bad/cheating method.
Also another question - I think the Star Wars 2nd edition R&E talks about warning a player that an action will give them a DSP before they do it. I don't think it said you HAD to do that, but did mention it as something you COULD do. What are your policies on this? Seems like some of you warn but some of you enjoy catching players with DSP's..... |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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I guess I could have worded that a little better...
The dark side will try to convince you to use its methods to achieve your goals. And since you're a high and mighty Jedi, you MUST be doing the right thing, right?
I mean sure, you could go up to that pair of stormtroopers, speak to them rationally like adults, and convince them that the people they're about to herd out the airlock really don't deserve to be dragged away, sent to Carida, and have their minds wiped and reprogrammed to be good little Imperials...
...OR, you could help those people avoid that fate AND keep yourself from getting shot at by hurling a little bit of Force Lightning at the troopers. It'll take 'em down quick and hard, and will make it just that much easier to get these innocents out of here.
Does that help? |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I guess I could have worded that a little better...
The dark side will try to convince you to use its methods to achieve your goals. And since you're a high and mighty Jedi, you MUST be doing the right thing, right?
I mean sure, you could go up to that pair of stormtroopers, speak to them rationally like adults, and convince them that the people they're about to herd out the airlock really don't deserve to be dragged away, sent to Carida, and have their minds wiped and reprogrammed to be good little Imperials...
...OR, you could help those people avoid that fate AND keep yourself from getting shot at by hurling a little bit of Force Lightning at the troopers. It'll take 'em down quick and hard, and will make it just that much easier to get these innocents out of here.
Does that help? |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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I guess I could have worded that a little better...
The dark side will try to convince you to use its methods to achieve your goals. And since you're a high and mighty Jedi, you MUST be doing the right thing, right?
I mean sure, you could go up to that pair of stormtroopers, speak to them rationally like adults, and convince them that the people they're about to herd out the airlock really don't deserve to be dragged away, sent to Carida, and have their minds wiped and reprogrammed to be good little Imperials...
...OR, you could help those people avoid that fate AND keep yourself from getting shot at by hurling a little bit of Force Lightning at the troopers. It'll take 'em down quick and hard, and will make it just that much easier to get these innocents out of here.
Does that help? |
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Kalibarr
Ensign
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe if you post it just one more time....lol just kidding
Yes that does help. The dark side does its best to weave selfish ends into your altruistic goals. Very nasty of it. Reminds me of the screwtape letters actually. |
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