Strength damage from D6 Space

[Effex Seven]

What do you think of the Strength damage rule from D6 Space? (STR damage = drop any pips, divide by 2, round up. So 3d+2 = 2d.) The rationale is that a punch should not do as much damage as a blaster.

[Gry Sarth]

Don't much like it, to be honest. I understand the logic of making a punch less lethal than a blaster, but I don't think this change is necessary. The average punch (3D) is already weaker than the average blaster (4D), and the problem is that 2D damage is really not likely to inflict any damage at all, most of the time.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Grimace]

I agree with Gry Sarth on that. Reducing the strength is kind of cheesy. For weapons that add strength to them, it makes the weapon wimpy. For regular hand to hand damage, it makes punches almost worthless.

Unless they come up with a new manner to deal damage to people when brawling, I don't see ever using the lessened strength damage as presented.

[cheshire]

One of the things you deal with in the D6 system is that you sacrifice realism for playability. I'm not sure if the creators of the new books have completely grasped that. Perhaps the R&E strength damage was overpowered, though this system is under powered. I think that any mechanic that you develop to try to come to a happy medium is going to complicate the system beyond its original intent.

[Neo-Paladin]

From what I understand from the WEG they are just trying to level the damage scale out. A sword (slab o’metal not lightsaber) shouldn’t do as much damage as a blaster, or even a pistol. But you can only make energy weapons so powerful before they become stupid powerful.

For wound levels it does seem to under power Str based damage (as you can punch and punch and get nowhere), but they also have the body points system (which I’ve incorporated into my games), and I do like the rule for body points.
_________________
Science is organized knowldge, wisdom is organized life
-Kant

[Gry Sarth]

If Body Points are anything like Hit Points in d20, I don't want to see that anywhere near D6.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Cool McCool]

I always allowed Brawling damage to equal STR + Brawling, up to STR + 1D+2. (Or maybe it was STR+1D.)

The "explanation" was that your hands (and elbows, needs, head, whatever) are lethal weapons. They should be treated like it!

The real reason for the change was twofold:

* We had a player who used Brawling as his main attack, and I wanted it to be a viable option (ie. balanced);

* I always felt that being important in the game (or to the story) was more important than realism. Meaning that PCs do lots of damage because they have narrative influence, not just because they have a bigger gun.

_________________
Still funky after all these years

[Grimace]

Well, Gry, Body Points ARE similar to D&D Hit points, but you can work it so that after X points are lost, you're classified as Wounded and suffer -1D and after Y points are lost, you're incapacitated and so on. So it gives a different feel compared to Wound Levels, but isn't exactly the same as the hokey feeling D&D Hit Points.

As for the comment by Neo Paladin of swords not doing as much damage as a blaster or bullet, I vehemently disagree. Swords, knifes, axes and such leave gaping, torn and bloody wounds. They can crack bones, sever limbs and tear up internal organs just as easily, if not more easily, than a bullet or blaster. You want an idea of how damaging those weapons can be, watch Braveheart or Excalibur, or even the short battle sequences of Rob Roy or Highlander. Hand weapons are hardly LESS damaging than bullets. The disadvantage of hand weapons is that you generally have to be more skilled to use them, and you have to also be right in the other person's face in order to use them against an enemy. Bullets and blasters can damage and kill from afar, but swords, spears and all manner of knives should certainly be able to kill just as easily, as history more than adquately shows they were capable of doing so.

[Neo-Paladin]

Body points are like Hit points the way a Panda Bear is like an Owlbear. They’re both have what might be considered ursine characteristics, but where one is mild and realistic the other is crazy stupid and outrageous besides.

Body Points are off of Str (or Phys if you prefer) and damage drops them till you are dead. Fractions of your Body Points total are the equivalent of wound levels for penalty applications. There is no soaking of damage, unless you’ve got armor or a special ability.

I like it at least, though I have homeruled it beyond recognition because I use D6 legends for my combat ...

And yes, I know Giant Pandas are not in the Ursa family.
_________________
Science is organized knowldge, wisdom is organized life
-Kant

[Pel]

Hmm...I think I'll stick with the tried and true WEG Wound chart. All this talk of points smacks of those 'other' gaming systems.
_________________
Aha!

[Neo-Paladin]

I hear you Pel. As much as anything I’m happy to get away from the scads of dice rolls that come with the wound chart. When damage is delt you take it and deal with it. Just my preference.

As to Grimace, I think I’m pretty aware of what a sword can do. I’ve seen Connections where James Burke (an historian) hacked the trunk of a sheep in twain with only two full swings of a b@st@rd* sword as just such a demonstration. It was pretty sweet.

That said, a bullet’s damage isn’t just the perforation the bullet makes in a body, but the sonic shockwave of damage rupturing organs. I don’t think I’m selling swords short; when I run fantasy lethality between a bullet and a sword is pretty equivalent. However, a bullet will punch holes in things a sword will only chip. A prime example: chain mail will stop many sword strikes (though admittedly not all). Chainmail is less effective for firearms.

Lethality can be fairly equivalent. But my contention is damage isn’t just fleshy targets.
_________________
Science is organized knowldge, wisdom is organized life
-Kant

[Gry Sarth]

Well, I'm perfectly happy with SWD6 damage system. It's very open, so you never know what might kill you or barely leave a mark, as is often the case in reality. The system never lets you be so overconfident as to take a punch without hesitation, or too coward to not attempt a daring raid against a light repeating blaster. With Hit Points, you know pretty much how much you can handle, the Level 1 wizard knows that two sword hits will kill him and the advanced fighter knows he can easily shrug off that troll's mighty axe for a dozen rounds. With SWD6, you can never be quite sure, I've seen buff characters wearing commando armor die with a blaster pistol's warning shot, and others live to tell the tale after a thermal explosion (albeit with some missing parts)....

Okay, maybe I strayed a bit off-topic, but I just love D6, can you blame me?

I like the soak roll, I like that the decision of how much damage you'll suffer is partially in your hands.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Grimace]

Neo Paladin, you mentioned in your previous post the following:

[Allst Beamem]

I kida hate this whole weapons do damage bit all together.

Weapons are not designed to hurt or damage someone thay are ment to kill. If you hit some one with a weapon and do not kill them you either ment to not kill them or you are just not skilled enough with the weapon in question to get the job done.

Ive allways felt that damage should be based on skill with a bonus from the weapon. Example: Blaster skill 5D + heavy blaster pistol bounus of 6 = 21. Fireing at stationary target at med range - 10. Totling 11 over for an incapasitae.

Ive allways thought this could be better but have never got a chance to use it.

Maby some one else out there with a group cold play test it and tell me 8)
_________________
We're all gona die!!

[Cool McCool]

While I never played with straight-up "attack roll vs. defense roll, apply difference to damage table", I did use a similar system for lightsaber combat.

You know how it would always be attack-parry-attack-parry-attack-parry-attack-hit-total total death?

So you just cap the amount of damage that you can do as the difference between the attack roll and the parry roll. This worked well. (This wasn't my idea; I got it from the mailing list years back from... looks like G.M.Sarli.)

I don't think there's much difference between doing it that way (capping damage) and the other way (compare attack vs. defense to damage table). It does change the nature of the game - how does armour work? What about high STR characters? etc. But hey - I think that if you are super-tough, you should have a skill! Wookie Strength, which goes under STR, or even Mandalorian Armour, under DEX or whatever. So that way you can have guys who are really tough, not just hard to hit, as well as getting rid of the damage roll.
_________________
Still funky after all these years