Melee Combat/Parry....same?

[Tahlorn]

Not wanting to make a huge debate over this, but I think the convincing skills should remain seperate. Bargain is striking common ground while letting both get what they want. Persuasion is to get what you want to happen happen, and making the other person go without it although they original didn't want to. Con is to get what you want without letting the other person know you were after something. I know some really good bargainers who can't lie worth s***, and so forth. They are related and are under the same type of skill catagory, but require different things. Also, if lumped into just one skill, it would be a VERY powerful skill (or at least in the missions I have been in with my GM). Just my two cents on that.

~T

[Endwyn]

I wasn't saying you should throw them together as one skill in Star Wars. But they are intertwined, they all come down to getting your way in different ways, and in different situations. For Star Wars, in general, they should be seperate. But there are games where it is easier, and more fitting to have one skill for all. My point really was that you can argue about how certain skills should or shouldn't be grouped together without end.

As for the differences between them, bargain is always used for exchanges and bartering. It's not about letting both getting what they want. It's about negotiating common ground with both sides having something to offer. Con is about lying, and passing it off as truth. Persuasion is for when you are telling the truth and trying to convince others. The last two are based more on whether you believe something to be true, not the effect you're looking for.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Argamoth]

I would keep the melee skills separate, so that characters can develop styles of fighting. Some individual people are better defensive or offesive. And it also takes more CP to become a better fighter, so combat PCs don't overpower the other players.

[Tahlorn]

Then should there also be a lightsabre parry skill?

[Endwyn]

I personally wouldn't make a Lightsaber parry skill because Lightsabers are not like any other weapon in the way you use them. I do think however, if you feel that there should be a parry skill to match all the other combat skills; then make it a house rule for your games.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Argamoth]

Ditto.

[garhkal]

I can underatand the argument for making them a linked skill, but doing that, what would you do for brawl, since it would be considered by many to be the same, though it is under 2 different attributes> Also, you have the balance factor. Cost of cps to keep them both up, is IMO a great way to keep their combat skills down.
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[Tahlorn]

I understand that for keeping the power of combat characters down, and is the one reason why I am not yelling "THIS IS A ***** **** ** * * ***** *********** ***'* SKILL SET!!". Perhaps I will try to get a house rule for it, perhaps if you up one of the skills, you can up the other one at half credit, due to training methods (teaching them together, that is).

As for Brawling, that is actually a completely different manner. Unless you are training in a fully brawling martial art, then you don't learn to parry a blow with your body properly(without getting hurt, that is). Brawling is not the Imperial Boxing Standards or what not, it is your ability to straight up wail on someone. Brawling isn't about not getting hit, it's hitting the other guy hard enough so they can't attack back. So an unarmed parrying skill makes sense, and is also more difficult, and thus would work as a seperate skill.

I guess it just comes down to, for me at least, that there needs to be a way of representing training with a melee weapon involves parry and attack at the same time, and perhjaps just an acceptance that the lightsabre skill is powerful.

~T

[Endwyn]

If I had to guess, I'd say the core of your problem with the skill is that because you had been trained to fight with a melee weapon (fencing, right?) you have personal experience that seems to contradict the game mecanics. I offer as a sugestion that you consider how much harder (and deadlier) it is to learn all this from yourself and combat only, without instruction. Without instruction the person is likely to only work on thrusts, attacks, ect. The first time they realize they didn't/couldn't/barely parried in real fighting they would begin to work on that, but without a fighting partner outside real combat practicing parries would be real hard.

A teacher however, would see both as a basic principle of fighting; and teach both attack and parry together. If you really want to recreate the most realistic version of this combat skill without it spiraling out of control, use the "teacher rule". A jedi can advance force skills at half cost with an instructer better than him with at least 3D in force skills. Well, make a teacher rule for regular skills; require the instructor have at least a 5D (or whatever value you want) in the skill to teach it, and can only instruct (provide the CP discount) for students with a lower value than his skill. Doing that it will still be hard for the PC's to learn to fight on their own and through combat experience. If they hire an instructor they could learn the basics pretty easy (advance both as if one skill due to the half cost), but as soon as they hit the teacher's level - they're on their own again.

It has it's own possible flaws, but the GM has a good degree of control over teachers to prevent abuse. The PC's can only get the cheap ride so far, and it accounts for the difference between instruction and trial and error. Perhaps this might be a good choice for your game. If not, just house rule the skills as one.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Tahlorn]

Ooooh that makes it all better, actually. As for controlling power, a certain teacher could only take them so far before they need to find a new one, and getting one will not be jsut a simple task.

Thank you so much!

~T

[Volar the Healer]

[Raiz]

I wrote that in another post but later I saw this and i directly copy that here.

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for Melee & Brawl attacks:

D&D: Attack-STR | Defense-DEX and armor (official rules - stupid)
Alternity: Attack-STR | Defense-With same skill or dodge
Cyberpunk: Attack-DEX | Defense-With same skill or dodge
WoD: Attack-DEX | Defense-With same skill or dodge
Cutulhu: Attack-Skill only | Defense-With same skill or dodge

SWd6: Melee-DEX Brawl-STR | Defense-two stupid and unnecessary skills such as Brawling Parry and Melee Parry

Why just not use Brawling for Blocking punches and Melee for parrying melee attacks? Why 2 skills instead of one? No other system I remember uses such a rule. Lightsabre skill can be used to both attack and brawl. The other close combat maneuers need the same by justice.

In all other good systems you can defend yourself with the same attack skill and also you can dodge the melee attack. It is just a matter of position and style. If you have large space around you can dodge a melee attack or you can dodge a lightsabre in every position you have(couse u have no other chance). But in small places trying to dodge can give you penalty so you choose to block. Or you can block for just you want to block. But with the SAME skill of the attack not with another stupid blocking skill.

And for Comp.Prog&Repair and Droid Prog.&Repair I have not seperated the Droid thing like the revised rule. It doesnt make sense. If you know computer hardware and software it is the same with droids. In fact i think Computer Programing and Droid programming shall be exactly the same skills. If so Droid/Computer repair can be another skill.

[Raiz]

[Phalanks Balas]

Well, SW D6 system is based on attack skills vs defensive skills. attack skills and defensive skills are different.
Hand to hand parry means a character try to avoid a brawling attack (whatever it is) by an effective way (parry a punch, avoiding claws etc...).
Melee parry means a character try to avoid melee weapon blow : The way depends on what weapon has the character. If s/he has a melee weapon s/he can try to parry with it else it's a dodge like move. I use also melee parry with lightsaber.
Dodge is to avoid ranged attacks. Against grenades, I use the following rule : on a succeeded dodge roll the character move away from the impact of the grenade (where it explodes). If s/he can take cover (GM discession) no damage are taken else standard range damage apply.

Characters can become quickly overpowered if players have few skills to upgrade. Using all defensive skill is a way to slow character advance and also to make a challenge (if characters are god-like blaster fighter, maybe they are newbie in brawling...).

For computer prog/repair skill, I think it can be split in computer repair and programming (computer or droid). Aren't droids some kind of computer ?
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Phalanks

A day you will be facing the guns of the Black Pearl. You will know what means damned pirates !

[Gry Sarth]

If you've decided to build a character with 10D brawling and no parry skill, then you purposefully set out to create an unbalanced character. That is a player's choice and the system allows for that. What it means in game terms is that you have a juggernaut of a character, who never learned the fine art of actually evading or blocking punches, he just dives headlong into a fight, swinging like a madman and the fight is usually over before the opponent can take a swing at him. That's feasible, and that's your choice.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."