Noticing the Jedi hand wave...

[garhkal]

OK. We see in nearly all the films, when a jedi wishes to affect a person's mind, they wave their hand. But why is it, none of the others watching, that are NOT being affected notice?
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[Gry Sarth]

Well, in the Classic Trilogy, it was used very rarely. If I remember correctly only OB1 on the sandtrooper and Luke on Bib Fortuna. OB1 was very low key about it, he uses a very sicreet gesture, which one could easily miss or assume it was normal speech gesticulation. And LUke was alone with Bib, so he didn't need to be discreet.

Now, granted, in the prequels some people are more flamboyant about it. Qui-Gon makes sweeping gestures. Although he is alone with Watto when he does it, and at the Gungan Council, I myself didn't notice it the first time, thinking it was just a commanding gesticulation.

The point is, if people don't expect being mind tricked, they won't suspect a slightly unusual hand gesture.
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[Allst Beamem]

I think my question on this is, is the gesture nessarry? Or is it purly for effect?

I'm not sure how many of you read comic books but, Marvels Magneto was asked by another character about using hand gsters when using his powers and he said that he didnt need to use his hands but that it helped him to focus. Maby this is the case with the "mind trick"?

I don't know what do you guys think?

Edit:Sweet 100th post! WOOT!
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[Gry Sarth]

In the Telekinesis Force Power rules, it states that is you can gesture with your hands, you get a +5 or something bonus to your roll. I very much like that, as the physical act of pretending to move an object will help you focus your powers on moving it with the Force.

The Jedi Mind Trick hand-wave seems to me like a similar thing. The gesture looks like closing a curtain over the target's mind, thus hiding the truth from him, or creating an illusory plane before him. Making the gesture helps you focus on the task. Therefore I think the same kind of bonus used in Telekinesis should apply to Affect Mind, perhaps a little smaller, like +3.
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[Boomer]

There are other sources which say the hand gestures do nothing, but to help visualize. Of course by "helping visualize" they provide no actual bonus.

In the novel Jedi Search, one of the students Luke taught tried doing telekinesis with the hand gesture Luke used... this got in the way, as he was focusing on his hand and the affect was zilch. Once he held perfectly still so he could concentrate on his target, it was than easier for him to move objects, much easier than Luke had even made it seem.

Where as for Luke it appeared immitating a flick helped re-create that flick on the target, the student recognized it was all in the mind, and holding perfectly still he gave the large steel beam a shove.

In my games, I have ruled that the use of powers is all about your relationship with the force. How do you relate to it, learn from it, speak to it, et cetera.
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[garhkal]

True, but you still have the jedi character saying something to the person getting affected, then that person repeating it... would that not get noticed...??
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[Ray]

Only if the manner of speaking is loud from the Jedi, and the type of speach is wrong from the person being controlled.

"Not far, this planet, on our route. Time it takes, not much it will." sounds wrong coming from a Senator when Yoda's in the room.

Or Crunch sounding even remotely intelligent.

Actually, reminds me of a joke:

"Hey! Jedi, which person in the room would be the most difficult to do your Hand Wavy thing to?" "Crunch." "Huh???" "Well, first, I'd have to find his brain..." "Good point."

[Jedi Skyler]

Plus, for Projective Telepathy, I believe there's actually a penalty if the Force user is not able to speak aloud (whether for stealth, gagged, etc.). If they CAN speak aloud, there's no penalty for use.

However, I like Boomer's take on it. A Jedi might not be as skilled as the next guy, but if he believes he can use Affect Mind without moving his hands, he's more likely to actually be able to do so.

Luke: "I don't believe it!"
Yoda: "That is why you fail."

[garhkal]

But it is still not answering the main point. about why no one else notices (or is it somehow the force clouding their mind while the jedi uses the power)??
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[jmanski]

Jedi: (waves hand) "We will be allowed to proceed."

Stormtrooper: "You will be allowed to proceed."

NPC 1: "Hey, that guy keeps repeating what that other guy says!"

NPC 2: "Yeah, my brother stopped that in the 3rd grade...."

NPC 1: "Hey, you, stormtrooper- why do you keep repeating him?"

NPC 2: "Because he's an idiot? And, technically, he's not repeating, he's changing it to fit.... oh, never mind. "
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[Jedi Skyler]

Well, take OB1's use in ANH. He uses the Force on the LEADER of the squad of troopers, all of whom have been trained to be good little soldiers (OR ELSE), and as such don't make a habit of questioning orders. Now you have this old geezer who just rolled up and is giving himself permissions and passes like he's the Emperor himself.

When your CO, who's been trained just like you and doesn't question orders-just like you- suddenly changes his mind and lets the old fogey pass, you don't question him. Otherwise, you're running guard detail out on Kessel, or worse.

Plus, in this example, OB1 followed his judicious use of the Mind Trick with some good con action as well.

(Regarding the droids) "They're for sale, if you want them."

With that he added a bit of credibility to what he was trying to pull, in the event he was unsuccessful.

Plus, remember that by this time OB1 has been a Jedi Master for quite a few years. He's basically had nothing to do but find water, keep a pair of macrobinoculars trained on the Lars homestead, and practice his Force skills. I'm sure he was able to hit the whole squad with a single hand wave.

[Akari]

Just one little tiny question... Why is Obi-Wan referred to as "OB1" in so many posts? Was that something I missed?

[Gry Sarth]

Because it's easier to type and it's pronouned the same way. O-B-1 = Ow-Bee-One =~ Obi-Wan
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[DoubtBreak]

In the movies, the hand gesture and particular way of speaking are used so that the audience can tell that a Force ability is obviously being used. Interesting to note, Obi-wan uses the same hand gesture - and presumably the same power - to make a stormtrooper think that he (the trooper) heard a noise, so that he (Obi-wan) can sneak past.

In an effort to keep the RPG rules balanced - and maybe someone else can back me up on this? - I've been using the following rule:

The hand gesture helps the character focus his/her concentration, and (in some cases) helps the Force to flow more easily through the character in the direction he/she desires. Using a Force power, with the difficulties listed in the rules, requres a hand gesture if the Alter skill is involved. If the character wants to use such a Force power without gesturing, add +5 to the difficulty.

This way, if a character wants to be subtle about a Force power, they've got to hit higher numbers. In the case of mind tricks (the Affect Mind power), speaking is sometimes treated the same way. A character who over-uses Affect Mind will eventually get noticed from the unusual speech patterns and frequent hand gestures. If that character wants to be subtle about it, they've got to settle for effects that have easier difficulties (to offset the added difficulty).

[Pel]

Agreed. All that hand waving in the movie is a visual cue for the audience. We do like to use it in our games, though. Doesn't come up much, but every now and then I roll to see if a bystander suspects a Jedi Mindtrick is in action.
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