Martial arts and brawling

[TarlSS]

Martial arts is a much more powerful and cheaper skill than brawling. Is there ever a time when someone cannot use martial arts?

Or is this meant to be a reward since fighting with weapons is generally a better idea, so it's cheaper?

Also, some of the things in Rules of Engagement are ridiculous. Instant Wound? Getting above a 20 and hitting deals an instant wound, what is that?

[Ejacobs]

Well, if you are the GM, you don't have to use any rules that you don't want to. Also, in our games, Martial Arts is a specialty based off of brawling. So, we require you have at least 5D in something before you can specialize in one of it's subcategories. For us it expresses the amount of time that has been put into learning and improving that ability.

E

[Jedi Skyler]

Also, taking the specialization a step or three further, when one specializes in a certain style, they become more proficient at certain moves. A judo artist will be better at throws and techniques concerning leverage. A tae kwon do stylist is better at kicks and aerial moves. A jeet kun do practitioner is taught to adapt to the situation, altering techniques to counter whatever is thrown at you.

In other words, you CAN have a general specialization of Martial Arts, and that would (at GM's discretion) allow them to have certain moves that they can do at a reduced difficulty, to reflect time spent training. Or, you can have a specialization in a certain style, and can get as descriptive as you want with "special" moves that can be performed kind of like a called shot with a firearm. It can be as complex or as simple as you want it.

[Volar the Healer]

I agree with you. The Martial Arts rules are poor. I sugest the following house rule:

Martial Arts is an advanced skill. Cost to raise it are doubled. The Martial Arts Parry skill is a normal skill but must remain within 1D of Martial Arts. The martial artist scores damage in hand to hand combat equal to his skill, not his strength.

This rule seems to replicate what martial arts actually do much better than the official rules. In reality, leaning a martial art is harder, not easier. But it can be devestating once you've mastered it. We figure a black belt in Karate would be: (A) Karate 5D and Karate Parry 5D.
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No Jesus, No Peace

[gollummen]

Yes, like Jedi Skyler says:
If you specialize the disadvantage is that you can only use it for attacks/defences thay your style use.

Example:
If you specialize in boxing and boxing parry, you can use the skill to punch your opponent and block his blows, but not for grabbling him.
If you specialize in wrestling it is the other way around.

At least that would be a simple and efficient rule.
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All stats 2D, except: brawling parry: versus boxing 2D+2, melee combat: swords 3D, melee parry: swords 2D+2, languages: english 2D+1, scolar: history 3D, scolar: social studies 2D+1, brawling: boxing 2D+2, computer programming/repair 2D+1.

[garhkal]

I like how sparks has it... While it is still a specialty, you have to learn both the spec of m.art attack and m.art parry togther, and keep them within 1d of one another.
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[TarlSS]

Okay, so its affirmed the official rules dont make any sense whatsoever.

I was thinking pf making martial arts working like the Force. The skill is not rolled to hit or block, merely to activate the 'abilities'. They would cost an action and you'd suffer MAPS as normal.

So, say you wanted to use Nerve Punch. It's a very difficult ability. so you need to roll Brawling: MA in order to activate it. Then you roll your brawling as your next action or on your next turn, still suffering MAPS, in order to use it. Much more balanced.

Skills such as martial arts block/weapon block can be kept 'up' as Jedi powers can.

Obviously, some exceptions need to be made for things like Multistrike. I'd also require learning the Easy skills before the moderate and etc.

Of course, there are no alignment restrictions as with the force, and you start at your base strength, not 1D

[Jedi Skyler]

I don't agree with having a MAP for using Martial Arts. Believe me, if you come up to me and throw a punch at my face, I don't care what else I'm doing, my reflexes are trained such that I'll either drop whatever I was doing and block you, or I'll use whatever I'm holding to block you. Either way, my training takes over at that point. I'm not advocating that you ignore MAPS for using martial arts with other actions, but never if it's the only thing you're doing. Any "special moves" you perform will have seperate difficulty numbers assigned to them, reflecting the complexity of the move, and therefore don't require a MAP on top of it.

[TarlSS]

Yes, I'm aware how martial arts works in real life.
For this house rule, Brawling is the only thing that gets rolled to hit people.
All martial arts skills are powers. The exception is that weapon block and other block skills use the martial arts dice for the opposed roll, but you take a -1D for MAPs because you are keeping that power 'up'.

So say if you wanted to execute an "elbow strike" for +1D damage, you spend an action doing so. Then you roll brawling for the actual 'to-hit' roll.

I'm trying to abstract the concept of martial arts so it fits in with the rest of the game mechanically, not fit it into some kind of preconceived notion of reality. You'll find your description falls under the heading of 'brawling' under this ruling. You might resent that, you might not. I'm not really interested in the name game. (SWD6 is notorious for poorly named skills.)

This way, brawling and martial arts don't overlap, and there's no undue penalty to an MA user since he's gaining it at half the skill cost anyway. It also puts more strategy into it. Do you dump all your points into brawling for better to-hit, or do you invest in MA for more damaging abilities? In combat, do you try to pull something fancy, or just go for what's brutally effective?

[KageRyu]

I have always handled Martial Arts as an Advanced skill (starts at 0D, costs double to increase, must be purchased at a full 1D) that a character can not learn until Brawling and Brawling parry reach 5D each. I allow it to add to either. I allow 1 special move for every full 1D obtained in Martial Arts.

I thought the Specforce Handbook had some nice ideas, but went about it wrong. I also created similar sword and melee style skills using a number of sources (including the fan made Lightsaber Forms) for inspirations on the moves.

I consider Brawling to be cruder wrestling and boxing style, general fighting. Sure you can say you're doing an uppercut, or a thrust kick, but without the martial arts skill and that move, it gives no added affect to game play other than style (as the character isn't properly trained in it).
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[hazardchris]

I've always used the advanced skill rule for Martial Arts.

I've been trying to come up with a streetfighting specialization. Although MA training is a good asset, an highly experienced streetfighter is by far more dangerous than a karate blackbelt. And I wouldn't consider Boxing and Wrestling 'primitive'. Boxing is possibly the best punching style in the world while wrestling is a very effective one-on-one form of fighting. And olympic wrestling is VERY effective one-on-one.

Personally my favorite form of fighting is the more modern styles. Hapkido, Brazillian Ju-Jutsu, Sambo, and Military Martial Arts.

[Jedi Skyler]

I hope the "martial arts" the military is teaching these days is a WHOLE lot better than what they taught when I was in; it was a flamin' joke back then. I got more out of a 30 minute session with my best friend in the military than I did in the entire hand to hand training they gave.

[Ejacobs]

It's getting better, but still leaves a lot to be desired. From what I've heard, basic is going to be focusing lots more on hand to hand and actual warrior skills and less on marching and uniforms and such. Makes sense now that the new uniform doesn't require boot polishing (thank God!).

E

[Jedi Skyler]

Really? How cool.

Although I DO like the look of spit-shined boots. And I WAS on a drill team as well... but I agree. They need to focus more on teaching soldiers to SOLDIER, rather than concentrating on how to rattle off the chain of command all the way up to the President. Sure, it's good information, but unless you work in DC, you will not likely ever need half the info they force-fed me at Basic.

[impfrontier]

Rules of Engagements also has an option of requiring basic punch, etc. before any of the other techniques can be learned. The basic skills aren't on the chart but the next page over.