Skill use without the skill???

[garhkal]

OK. For the most part, if a person in D6 has not hte skil, they default to the base attribute. But why? Should there not be certain skills, that require even a modicum of training to use? OR personal requirements to use??

EG a group of people with NOT ONE single iota of fringe experience, and no one with streetwise as a skill. Should they still be able to get to roll to find someone, or something?

Or a group of people who have never laid eyes on a fighter, and so have no repair skills for ships. should they get a chance to roll to fix it/?
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[Tahlorn]

They roll the attribute, but with a higher difficulty modifier against them. Just makes sense. Sometimes my group just gives a penalty to thier roll instead (minus said amount of dice). Makes sense. A super dextrous being who has never seen a blaster shouldn't be able to outshoot a trained marksman.

[Ejacobs]

So what difficulty modifier do you suggest adding to the characters attempt to use a skill he has no pips in?

E

[Endwyn]

Our group makes characters as per the following guidlines, realize that what follows is house rules.

When you make a character you get a number of skills equal to 2 x your attribute, rounded. 3D+2 = 7 skills while 3D+1 = 6 skills. These are the number of skills under each attribute you know, are trained in, whatever. These skills default to the attribute's die code. Then the skills you have increased obviously use those die codes. For the skills you don't have but wish to use you roll the attribute -1D. No one can attempt to use an (A) skill if they are not skilled / trained.
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Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Ejacobs]

That sounds like a fairly good and reasonable solution. I like it. I'll mention it to my GM and see what he thinks. May I?

E

[garhkal]

Other game systems have it where if you don't even have the skill, knowledge etc, you cannot even try. Like with white wolf and knowledges... No dots, no roll...

I was basing this off a conversation i was having with grimace....

Me and grimace were talking about info that would be good be good for the players to have, though not necessary... which is what (IMO) force visions are for. But when i said that there has been times i have had a table full of non force sensitives, he said, why not move that to level 2 knowledge for all to gain? Saying that if it is that 'good' why jip them for not having force sensitives there.... i said it is IMO not jipping them, as they would be (or should) in the same boat, if say they were out looking for hutt contacts (or other fringer) when not one of them is a fringer and none even have streetwise.... NO damn clue where to start....

I liken it to RL. Not everyone can fix automobiles, or worse yet, computers and other electronics... I can, as i have been trained (have the skill)... But give someone who has never had experience with it, or otherwise know what it is, and they wont be able to fix it. Same with other skills..

IMO things like repairs, streetwise, investigations, and scholar type skills should not be allowed to get 'defaulted'...
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Orgaloth]

[Ray]

My group just upped the difficulty one step (+5 to Difficulty), and called it a day.

Quick, simple, effective. Just like the D6 System!

[Endwyn]

Ejacobs: Yes, use it if you want - that's the whole point of sharing!

The reason we never restricted people from rolling knowledges or technical skills they didn't have was because everyone can try to fix something or remember a bit of trivia they may have heard about something. If a character doesn't have planetary systems but is trying to see if they know where Toydaria is located, it's possible that the character or a friend had been near Hutt space; perhaps it's something they remember from history class about the Hutts and their domination of Hutt Space......no character can ever be so fully fleshed out that they are exactly as real a someone who has lived for 20+ years, and so there is never a definate when it comes to trivia and the possibility to repair minor things. Even the best Techie human would only have 3D to try and fix something they aren't familiar with - but their vast knowledge and experience repairing things should help assist them somewhat in "educated guesses" of how to fix something.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Orgaloth]

I wrote my response after not sleeping for 48 hours, so it wasn't complete. We can roll the skill if our characters don't have it on the sheet, but as with everyone else, the diffuculty is greater. It may only be a small difference, for something minor, or a large difference, for something you need a specialist for.
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"I take orders from just one person: Me!"

"You know, sometimes I amaze even myself."
Du Cass' Dream

[Boomer]

The way I do it, I increase the difficulty based upon the difficulty modifier table. How much harder would it really be for the particular person trying.

Do they know absolutely nothing about it? Than it'd be about 15 increase.
Have they worked with anything similar before? Just 10 increase.
Or is it basically the same thing as another skill you don't have and are only missing a few specifics. Well just 5 increase than.

But that is just me.
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My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[garhkal]

[Endwyn]

I can't argue some of the responses you posted, but I can argue the two biggest disagreements. As for using an unskilled average person - an "average person" would have 2D in TEC, so after our group's unskilled penalty they would have only 1D to roll to repair something......which means that the average person shouldn't succeed at unskilled check when the difficulty is over easy. (They can occasionaly hit easy difficulty, moderate being an extreme fluke, and anything higher being astronomiclly more unlikely.) So when you say the average person pulled off the street couldn't make those repairs, I agree with you; it's just that I disagree about that statement argueing against out group's system.

As for the specialist with a 3D-4D tec not being able to repair the radio. He'd be left with 2D-3D to fix it. The average result for 2D is 7, and 10-11 for 3D. Now, I don't know how hard thatradio is to fix, but I doubt a 7 cuts it; and the 10-11 probably isn't that great either. Now, I don't know the man you speak of; but since 4D represents the peak of human development, I doubt he was at that point without being considered a technical genius, ect. If he was considered in that standing, perhaps he is that good. Otherwise, I'd think he sits closer to the 3D and the 7 - which again, speaking without knowing the tec, is probably not fixable with a 7.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Volar the Healer]

I like the official rule as written.

I am not trained to land a jet airliner, but if the stewardess told me the pilots were both dead - I'd give it a try! What are my odds? I'd be rolling 2D mechanical. I need a 10?. Well...maybe.

I am not trained to play the piano in concert. What are my odds? I'd be rolling 2D. I need a 25? Baring some kind of Divine intervention, that's effectivly impossible.

Yep, the official rule seems to replicate real life good enough. Now adjust for Star Wars:

My character is not trained to land a Y-wing. The pilot is dead. My character (the gunner) has 2D mechanical and must roll a 10? Well...maybe.

My character is not trained to play in the band at Jabba's palace. He's rolling 2D. He needs a 20? Let's find some other way to sneak into Jabba's palace...
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Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace

[Robert]

About this specialist with that many dice unable to fix a radio: Maybe he just rolled bad? Every 6th skill roll is a surprise.

In our group we don´t use any rules for unskilled - skilled. You either have bonus dice because you are skilled or you roll your attribute. I view skills in D6 very much like a specialisation within the attribute, which can be further specialised within a skill. You could even say skills dont derive from attributes, attributes are a bunch of skills.

It makes the whole thing easier and prevents the idea of getting one pip in eveey skill to circumvent the penalty. If i think some skill cant be used untrained, i rule it a advanced skill. We actually use these advanced skill rule for martial arts alongside the official droid engineer and medicine.