Dark Side Points

[KageRyu]

Okay, a few clarifications:
hitmark, those Dark Side Points from sith weapons that you have to "use immediately or lose" I believe are refering to Force Points gained from the dark side, in a similar fashion to trusting to the dark side. You get a temporary force point that you must use immediately, or it is lost, and you would get a dark side point.

Volar With the trusting to the dark side, it is not an infinite well of force points, they can run out. Each time a character tries it in the same adventure, the difficulty is raised by either +3 for someone not yet turned (as the dark side wants it to seem easier) or +5 for one who is fully in it's thrall. Also, how you intend to use the Force point gained can effect the difficulty by another +5 to +30 depending on whether it is in the service of the dark side, in the service of evil, etc... The base difficulty starts at 10 for force users, and 15 for only those who are force sensitive. I would not allow a non-force sensitive to call upon the dark side. Once a call to the dark side is failed, no further attempts may be made, and all force skill difficulties are increased, by the rulebook. I feel this balances out rather well, and have no problem with these rules for calling to the Dark Side as described in Second Edition R&E. Also, Second R&E does grant temporary bonuses to force skill if the character has DSP, but these should be at key moments, and using them grants a DSP, trying to resist them increases all force difficulties to show the concentration needed to keep the dark side at bay.

The rules also state you can only spend a single force point per round. Period. The only exception are items, powers, and abilities that require the expenditure of 1 or more force points. Force points granted by trusting to the dark side are still force points, and can not be spent in conjunction with other force points, unless used for such a power or ability.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[garhkal]

[Chabit Rane]

Thats going to leave a mark.

[garhkal]

Well, me and Kage disagree on that, as it does state elsewhere, that only one force point can be spent in a rounds BARRING use of force powers. So, which takes precidence?? That rule, or this one?
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Chabit Rane]

Well in my game i allow only the use of 1 force point per turn. DSP or no. Though i have been playing with the idea of letting someone that calls on the darkside to hold it till the next round, but that is something I have been toying with.

[hitmark]

[KageRyu]

[KageRyu]

[Allst Beamem]

I look at it this way, as long as you have an active PC treading on the dark side, let him use all the dark force points a round he wants too. Also give him a new DSP with evry use too. This way he will probibly turn to the DS in a few rounds any way and you will take him as an NPC so whats the harm?

[KageRyu]

[Allst Beamem]

you are absolutly correct. It does make the game terribly unballenced for a few rounds untill the PC has aquired enough DSP to take the character, then problem solved.

I understand what the rules say and you are right about that. But if I have a character so hell bent on using the darkside ill keep giving him rope untill his neck snaps.

I see the force as a living thing two living things actually. A good one and an evil one. The darkside of the force will pump you full of power to get you to use it and turn to it. Then after you are past the point of no return it tends to pull the rug out from under you.

In my campains there is nothing more dangerous than a Jedi that is on the edge of turning to the darkside. He is at his most powerfull becouse the DS is sudicing him with power.

Agin this is just my take on it and has nothing to do with the actual rules, so you can tell me to get stuffed and its ok

[KageRyu]

As the rules stand, the dark side has a slight edge, up until a character turns... but doing it this way makes the dark side much stronger than the light side, creating a serious imbalance in rules, and background.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[garhkal]

OK Kage… As I showed in the post I made on page 2, 2nd ed R&E has it where Calling the Dark Side, grants a force point, which must be spent immediately, this is in addition to any other force point spent that round.

Well, I looked in the base 2nd ed book, and it says on Page 56, this..

“When a character successfully calls on the dark side, he gets a force point, which must be spent immediately – this is in addition to any other force points which have been spent that round.”

Exactly the same wording. BOTH 2nd ed base and 2nd ed R&E say that the point is to be immediately spent, even if already on a FP...
Now, seeing it is AFTER where it says only 1 force point can be spent per round (under force points, spending) it is my assumption and belief that the DSP spending thing, supercedes that rule. Though I will say, it is a true pity, we have no West End Game producers around to make a ruling on this…

So your comment of "No where in any rule book or supplement does it have this phrase, "...even if another force point is already in effect." That is a misrepresentation on your part." Is incorrect...
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[hitmark]

i just spotted something that can have a heavy impact on this thread...

the rules for dark side characters or NPC (153, 2ed r&e) are diffrent from the rules set up on page 86 (again 2ed r&e).

basicly a person that have gone over to the dark side do not get meny of the benifits of a person being tempted by the dark side.

the biggest diffrences are that you only gain a force point from using a force point while performing evil at the dramaticaly appropriate time. anything else and you loose it.

and while the difficutly of calling on the dark side goes up by +3 for a person being tempted, it goes up a full level for a dark sider.

and the final is that for each time the call fails, the dark sider either loose character points, or loose 1D in either a attribute or a force skill.

so im guessing, but its not spelled out or hintet at in the book, that its only a person being tempted that can spend a normal force point and call upon the dark side at the same time.

the other option is that sooner or later the dark sider si left no option but call on the dark side each time he needs a force point. why? he have not been careful about when he used his "normal" force points and have wasted them on non-dramatic actions.

so yoda's words ring thru after all

[TarlSS]

I'm really missing this, what stat/skill do you roll to call the Darkside?