Intimidation and Willpower

[adamlumina93]

I have recently decided to move the Knowledge skills Intimidation and Willpower to Preception. This made sense to me because Bargain, Con, Persuasion are all under Preception and I thought this would enhance the gameplay and speed it up putting them all under this. Has anyone else tried something like this and how did it work out.

[Ray]

I'd suggest Intimidation to Perception and keeping Willpower in Knowledge.

Intimidation is mostly figuring out where to push and how. Be it physically, mentally, spiritually, or otherwise. And there are lots of folks that lack Knowledge (Which is mostly book learning), yet still are intimidating through sheer animalistic ability.

Willpower, however, is a learned skill. I speak from experience on this, and should stay in Knowledge.

[Gry Sarth]

I know most people complain about intimidation under KNO, they argue that a big dumb brute is more intimidating than an intellectual. However, we must never forget about the intimdation modifiers. Through those, a bulky, menacing brute gains a huge bonus to his roll (at least +10), while the puny intellectual will most likely get a penalty. So the skill is really about understanding what makes people tick, about conjuring up an intimidating image even if you don't really possess one. This certainly fits under KNO, though I can understand if people want to move it under PER, that's fitting as well. There's just no point in complaining about the physical aspect of it, since the modifiers cover that.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[MA-3PO]

[Jedi Skyler]

Agreed!

[Ray]

Good point. Crunch does tend to get some massive bonuses when he's flipping someone in the air like a pizza.

[KageRyu]

I agree with both skills, as Intimidation is a similar skill group to Con, Bargain, Persuasion, etc... and better fits with the same attribute as those skills. I agree with willpower because it seems like a natural given it is similar to the way Perception is used to resist force powers, so willpower is a shoe-in for that attribute too.

[Argamoth]

I'd just let the PC have it under his highest attribute. Both can make logical sense.

[garhkal]

[TarlSS]

I think it was done to make knowledge a more useful attribute to people and encourage balance. Perception heavy characters are already very powerful, while knowledge heavy characters are much more rare. This stops Joe Munchkin from dumping everything into PER and ignoring KNOW without penalty.

Also, I think since this is Star Wars, Intimidation is more for interrogation. I get the feeling they were inspired by Grand Moff Tarkin and his torture droid; in that area, it's knowledge that works.

[garhkal]

Though if you go by that, and also allow willpower to be used against force powers, you imo are giving it wayyy too much.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[KageRyu]

[garhkal]

Well said Kage. One of the most potent characters i have had, non combat wise, was an old republic scout. His survival, while only 6d, was still higher than anyone else, and was the only reason our group survived a week on hoth. His bureaucracy (5d) was the only reason we got our permits for those quad medium ion cannons. His streetwise was invaluable in many a situation. His other skills, also came in use many a time....

IMO many people treat knowledge in SW, like they do charisma in D&D, a dump stat or one that takes second fiddle to player action....
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[TarlSS]

It's a dumpstat because you have to go through special effort to make good use of it, and even then it might not help you. The very fact you have to make a special case for it as a DM and an adventure writer really cripples it. The usefulness of the skill is incumbent on the skill of the GM and that is a -very- fickle thing. Mechanically speaking, the skill is not very useful at all.

And honestly, I don't think giving it intimidation and the ability to resist Forcepowers is a very big deal at all. Str, Dex, Per, Mech and Tech all have very profound and direct impact on the game. Having a low knowledge CAN hurt you, but having a low stat in any of the other statistics will hurt you far more, and having a high statistic will help you far more. A smart person will be difficult for a Jedi to lightning. He will know many things. Yet he will die just as easily by people who want to kill him. It takes -very- little effort on the GM's part to bring this character in line and there is no danger of being 'overpowered' through knowledge skills. I think it brings the system more into balance to take away the power of perception and put it into knowledge.

It's a fact that such skills are inherently weak in every system. You can make a character that takes advantage of them, but more often than not character resources can be better distributed elsewhere to better use. You're better off making knowledge a powerful statistic off the bat because it's so easy to moderate it in game.

[Jedi Skyler]

A good GM doesn't have to make a special set of circumstances in order to use Knowledge. As Kage said, there are circumstances built in to pretty much ALL campaigns where a character with high Knowledge skills can be invaluable.

I'm in a game elsewhere that takes place in KOTOR era. My character, a Jedi Battle Master type, is currently paired with a Jedi who has 6D in Sith Lore. Right now we're on the way to join up with others from the Academy who are on a self-appointed mission to destroy a dangerous Sith artifact. The problem is, the more skilled you are in the Force, the more this artifact is attracted to you, and the harder it is to resist. It's basically a trap for Jedi Masters. Subsequently, our two characters are very weak in the Force, but my Lightsaber is 6D and my Martial Arts is at 6D+2. Now, my partner's Lightsaber is at 5D- not as bad as it could be, but not the best either, not unlike my own skill. But we're going to be encountering the effects of the Sith all over this planet, and my character wouldn't know what was what without my partner being there to interpret runes and glyphs, or to tell me how the Sith would do this or that, so we can properly counter it. Once we hook up with the rest of the group (who have already entered a series of caves leading to our overall destination) we will, as a whole, have a MUCH better shot at destroying the artifact with my partner's help, as his research into Sith Lore is MUCH higher than anyone else's. My own character's measly Jedi Lore rating won't help much, and is practically useless where the Sith are concerned. That specialized knowledge will come from my partner.

And, should we actually survive this mission, we'll have formed a well-rounded team that will be MUCH more likely to survive future missions, because we all excel in different areas. It's kinda akin to why no one seems to want to play slicers, because of the stereotype of "computer geek." I mean, who wants to be that? But if you were to do your homework, there's a wealth of knowledge slicers have that can be INVALUABLE to your campaign- no matter the era or mission. Slicers can set you up with false identichips/papers, fake ship transponders, orders, requisitions, not to mention the things they can do to everyday items. Remember that most items in SW have computers in them- whether they're simple, basic, regulatory chips or huge mainframes. Even a blaster has a small computer in it to regulate temperature and so forth. A slicer can access and modify these with his Computer Program/Repair skill. The possibilities are nearly endless.

Short story long, the point is simple. Don't underestimate ANY of the skills, including the ones that fall under Knowledge. At some point, they can make the difference between your party skating through the garrison with blaster bolts leaving tracks on the floor directly behind you, and your party making it through the garrison completely undetected, because your character had enough dice in Bureaucracy: Imperial Protocols or something to know how to get you through the base at the best possible time. Case in point: Han Solo knowing to when the Imps jettison their garbage, thereby detaching the Falcon safely from the Star Destroyer. Now, if only Boba Fett didn't know the same thing...