Brawling under STR is dumb

[Son of Fire]

Bottom line…
Game balance.

We can try to figure out what is more realistic or accurate all day, but I think that the ultimate call is game balance. That’s why in a system like Palladium where they tried to make it more “realistic” they put almost everything combat oriented under PP (PP=Physical Prowess = Dexterity), which led to almost every character and NPC having uber-high PP. Ironically for a game that was supposed to be “realistic” they made idiotic combat rules (which used a D20) like… a role of 1-4 is always a miss and a 20 is always a critical hit. So effectively they are saying… “No matter how inexperienced you are you hit a critical 5% of time, and no matter how good you always miss 20% of the time.”
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"My schooling not only failed to teach me what it professed to be teaching, but prevented me from being educated to an extent which infuriates me when I think of all I might have learned at home by myself." - George Bernard Shaw

[Hellcat]

[RedFox]

[garhkal]

[KageRyu]

Brawling also has a lot to do with grapling and wrestling your oponent, which is shear force of strength and overpowerment. As such, it makes sense for it to be strength based. There are a number of official and unofficial rules for a Desterity based martial arts.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[Darius]

I think that the rules kinda make sense with Brawling being a Strength skill. I didnt at first as our group has an Esoomian (7D Strength). But when a character tries to Brawling Parry an attack and fails, you can put it down to the attacker being so strong that he just bats the Parry aside.
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oops - i didnt mean to make it go off

[Sabre]

I think of brawling as unpracticed no-technique no form arms-flailing feet tripping over themselves furious random beating. Like what you'd see when two people get really angry at each other and whether they've had martial arts training or not simply start swinging and grabbing blindly and bashing anything around. I'm sure everyone has seen that on TV or in real life at some point. I for one have no problem with that being strength based.

I think this is also why they put brawl parry under dexterity. In the above-mentioned 'style' of fighting, there is no coordination involved, only swinging randomly.

Martial arts (under which I'd include any systematic trained unarmed style of fighting) are a totally different story. While strength does play a role in these, that's why you roll strength for damage. To execute techniques requires thought, a read on the situation, and enough coordination to execute the maneuver precisely, or in grappling you'll get pinned or locked and in striking you'll get countered. This is why I treat Martial Arts as a separate skill from brawling, and why I usually have those put under Dexterity.

[Robert]

I have a netbook at home which handles the topic of "fighting with style" in SWD6. In this book, the author introduces the idea of 3 different styles of fighting (be it brawling or martial arts). He calls them hard, soft and circular.

A quote:
"A successful attack by a wing chun practitioner trying to gouge out someone's eyes while sweeping them to the ground looks pretty different than a professional wrestler grabbing someone's knees and yanking, although both are technically throws."

The idea behind this is that hard techniques are best countered with soft, soft ones with circular, and circular with hard techniques. Just like rock-paper-scissors.

In my games martial arts is used as an advanced skill for brawling, and brawling is imho best suited under strength. But why not invent something like a soft and hard skill, which could count under dex and strength and a circular, which is advanced?. And whenever someone fights against his opposite technique, he loses one dice, while the other one gains one? Would that be fair?

P.S.
Palladium had some of the worst combat rules, that´s for sure. But that doesn´t matter when you play a demigod cosmoknight.

[Argamoth]

I treat Brawling as any for of hand-to-hand combat. (Special moves require special skills)

I think Brawling was put under Strength because weak fighters aren't good fighters. A quick fighter might be able to dodge, but won't have the muscle to land a hit. A touch, maybe, but not a hit that can deal some hurt. A fighter can easily deflect blows from a weak person.

Now, if the quick & weak person knew some form of martial arts that was a Dexterity skill, then that would be another matter.

[Jedi Skyler]

I have to agree (at least sort of) with Argamoth. A style such as Judo, which concentrates on using leverage, would be a good example of a Dexterity-based art. Perhaps Taekwondo as well, as it's a very aerial style. Most Karate, Kung Fu and other similar styles which use more techniques launched and delivered while still on the ground would be good candidates for Strength-based arts. Anything like Brazillian jiu-jitsu, which has a lot of submission and wrestling-type moves would also be Strength-based.

[Argamoth]

Point being that unless you have special training, Brawling is based on Strength.

[Jedi Skyler]

BINGO! 8)

[Raiz]

for Melee & Brawl attacks:

D&D: Attack-STR | Defense-DEX and armor (official rules - stupid)
Alternity: Attack-STR | Defense-With same skill or dodge
Cyberpunk: Attack-DEX | Defense-With same skill
WoD: Attack-DEX | Defense-With same skill or dodge
Cutulhu: Attack-Skill only | Defense-With same skill or dodge

SWd6: Melee-DEX Brawl-STR | Defense-two stupid and unnecessary skills such as Brawling Parry and Melee Parry

Why just not use Brawling for Blocking punches and Melee for parrying melee attacks? Why 2 skills instead of one? No other system I remember uses such a rule. Lightsabre skill can be used to both attack and brawl. The other close combat maneuers need the same by justice.

On the other hand i agree with Melee by DEX and Brawl by STR idea.

[Krapou]

[Raiz]

No need for another skill for those i think. You have seem to be implemented dodge/evade skill in Cyberpunk but in SW dodge can be used for them. Mentality is the same...