Series of Game Problems

[Boomer]

Hey all.
You guys are great, really, and I have been having a lot of fun on this forum. But instead of just shooting breeze and trying to be helpful, I need help.

Recently got a new player in my game. He is very experienced, been a GM for 23 years, and he is 17 years older than I am. He has stated that when I invited him to join my game, that was consent to give him control, simply because of his age. I disagreedm of course, but oh well. Now, this problem is currently in the middle of resolution, it has been explained that he is on thin ice and I am ready to ban him. Heretofor referring to him as "Bana"

So, onto problem two, what Bana thinks I should do versus what I am doing.

Another new player, completely new to the D6 system, but she has been RPing in other games for a couple years. I am letting her first character be a Trianii Smuggler. Smuggler Template, change race to Trianii, adjust the attributes (still at 18d), add the bonus for playing a female Trianii, voila.
Bana beleives that letting her play a non-human in her first game is a whole new level of complexity that will make things harder on her. He has described this as "Torturing a New-Born". Colorful, no?
I beleive that simply the races title, description, and background, change nothing. Bana has mentioned that she knows nothing of Trianii... I asked him to tell me a bit of the human world of Coreillia, which he could not do.

The dice are not any diffrent for a Trianii as they are for a Human. The females get a couple bonuses, they have a tail that does something other than wave, whoop-de-doo. She is used to playing cat-creatures from other games, she is more comfortable with it. Bana won't give me any examples of why this is going to be a problem, or explain things any clearer than I have done so far.

So, what am I doing wrong, here? Is playing a Trianii that much diffrent than playing a human that it would cause game problems?
I am not going to let him control me, but since he refuses to plead his case in a dignified manner, and merely slings insults, colorful metaphors, gives orders, and claims this is a teaching tool, I have no choice but to take it up with others that might see his side and present it in a civil manner.

Can somebody please tell me if I have overlooked anything?
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Endwyn]

I see both sides. In honesty, playing a non-human is hard on a new player. The key difference here is that this player is not new to RPG, just new to D6. Regardless either way, the simple fact is imagine wanting to play D6 Star Wars and being told you have to play a human and you can't be a jedi because they're harder to learn. How many people would still want to play? In the end there has to be some give and take; and reason. Now, if the other PC's are 6D jedi - then having a newb to D6 play a jedi would be hard. It would be much easier to let them play a "padawan" of another PC so they can get used to the use of the force at lower levels and have someone mentor them through playing a jedi both in and out of game.

As far as playing a cat person goes I'm sure the newest player won't play a perfect Trianni this time out, but the most important thing to remember is that you never have to play into the "typical", "average", or "stereo-type" of the race. Perhaps she is like worf, raised outside her culture. Maybe she disagreed with some fundamental beliefs? Perhaps she places more value on contributing back to the society than having a family unit?

This is what I would do.

1. Explain / let her read up on the Trianni, tell her she has two choices, she can try to play like the norm, or have a reason why she differs and behave outside that norm.

2. Explain to the older person that you don't really think seniority matters for the game, that the GM should have final say. You would appreciate his advice, but he needs to present logical arguements in a respectful way, and not infront of other players. Let him know you have final say. If he really pushes seniority on you, tell him that you agree with the importance of settleing things based on seniority, from now on everyone gets a vote based on seniority. He has one vote, so does the other newb; then assign one vote to each other player per year they've been in your group. Since you've always been in your group you should have a good 10-20 votes or so.

3. Try to play nice if possible.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Gry Sarth]

An RPG GM for 23 years! That's respectable, indeed. He should have a very firm grasp on gaming and all that jazz, which makes it hard to question his wisdom. However, it seems that in all this time he hasn't learned (or rather, has forgotten) humility. Just because he's been playing longer doesn't necessarily mean he's a better player and knows all the "right" ways to handle things. Just because someone is a newbie, doesn't mean they aren't capable of handling anything more complex than basics.

Now onto the specifics: I don't see why a newbie should start with a human. In fact, playing an alien may help the player get into the "Star Wars feel". I wouldn't recommend playing a complex alien species such as a Gand or whatever, where the historical and psychological aspects of it make up an important part of the species. A Trianii seems like an ok species, with only those acrobatics bonuses, which are nothing too complex.

Now, what to do? It seems this Bana is trying to use his experience as a way to gain "power" in the group, which is a bad thing. If he's a player, then he should put himself in the player's position. The GM has final say, and that's it. If he's a good player (which he should be) I think you should try and make him see that YOUR knowledge and opinions shouldn't be disregarded just because you don't have as much experience (and tell him you have a whole board of wise men to help you up on your decisions), tell him you'll listen to his input gladly, but you, as a GM, has final say. When he GMs he can do as he pleases. Now, if he's not that great an addition to your group, and if he insists on trying to "rule" the game, well... just show him to the door.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Jamfke]

Well, I've been playing for about the same amount of time, and mostly as a GM too. I still don't know everything, and I don't consider myself better than some just because I have been playing for so long.

Now, to the problem at hand. I can see where he's going with the idea that the new player might have a problem with playing an alien first time out, if it was her first time ever playing an RPG. As you stated though, she has played other games, so I would say let her decide whether she's comfortable with it. I like Endwyn's and Gry's comments on the subject as well.

Oh, and as to this joker's audacity to attempt to take over, you did good to put him back in his place. I'd probably be a little offended if someone told me to step back if I thought I knew better, but it's not my place to interfere with someone elses game. I consider myself lucky to just get into a game every now and then, so I'm not going to try and run it if I think I can do better.
_________________
Check out some of my games at DriveThruRPG!
Role Players Direct

[Allst Beamem]

I've been playing/gaming just as long also and I say this guys got some nerve. Your the GM its your game and IMO that drip can dry up!

Now with that said

This is star wars let the noob play what she wants, because as a noob she is going to need assistance from you and other experienced players anyway. /rant off

[Grimace]

I will sort of echo what others have said. The player, unless she is intimidated by playing a non-human, should be allowed to play the Trianii. It is no different than playing a Wookiee, a Mon Calamari, or a Rodian.

The cases where I would limit a new person on what they can play is if they have no idea what Star Wars is like, have no experience in roleplaying games, and want to play something that is generally considered complex (Jedi), challenging (droid), or over the top (Defel, Noghri, or some other powerful race). Then I would make suggestions for them to play something maybe a bit easier, or a bit tamer until they get a firm grasp on the rules and how you run games.

If the situation is not one where the person is like the above mentioned newbie, then allow them to play what they prefer as long as it does not conflict with your game. If you didn't want a Jedi in the group for whatever reason, don't let one in, even if a new person whines about it or an experienced person gives multiple reasons to allow it. If there's no problem, the tell your "Bana" to respect your judgement and drop it.

This Bana, by the way, strikes me as someone who may be a tad too set in there ways. If he starts raising complaints in game, or in front of the other players, you've got to put him in his place. YOU are the GM, not him. Inform him that if you were in his game, you would respect his judgement, and you expect him to do the same to you while he's a player in your game. Someone that claims to have that much experience should have the wisdom to see the sense in that. If he doesn't listen to reason, and doesn't ease off, providing input only if you ask or only after the session is over when the others aren't around, then you don't want someone like that in your game group. He'll run roughshod over you.

For what it's worth, I've been a GM for 21 years, and I've seen types like him before, so I know what he's trying to pull. I've sat in on many other GMs to observe their style and gain hints or tips (or learn what NOT to do), and some GMs have an air about them that they try to push on others, even if they don't want it. So stick to your guns! Take advice from him if you find it helpful, but in this case, you're in the right.

[Orgaloth]

You did right with the new female player. She has experience playing, and with a few hiccups, should pick up on her alien quite quickly. Let her read any material you have on the race, and give her some pointers.

The other guy is a wanker. Tell him it's your game, you invited him and if he doesn't abide by your rules, he's not welcome anymore. You're there to have fun, not to politic for control of your own game.
_________________
"I take orders from just one person: Me!"

"You know, sometimes I amaze even myself."
Du Cass' Dream

[Sabre]

That's exactly why people who always GM often make lousy players. I don't consider myself an exception at all. They get their own ideas and are accustomed to doing things their way. It's a difficult thing having no control over those dice!

Like most people, I agree that there's no such thing as seniority in your game. You brought him on as a player, not a GM. He can start his own durn game and maybe you'll play in it and maybe you won't, but if you do he can run things hisown way.

Apart from that, 23 years as GM or no, he's wrong, and if he's learned anything at all in that time he should know arguing it with you was a bad move on a hundred different levels. I've let newbies play aliens and Jedi... it's what draws newbies to your game in the first place. It's what sets Star Wars apart as an RPG setting, and what people want when the come to a Star Wars game. Sure they abuse it and don't roleplay it proper, but it's a game, not a theatric production. Everyone has their own way of playing; some get into the role and that's the whole game for them. Some roll the dice and that's the whole game for them. Some fall in between. Some hardly do anything at all, but like to watch it all unfold with the occasional pitch-in. GMs have to make it work for all these styles as best they can.

[garhkal]

While i have seen many a gamer, who, eventhough experienced in other games hiccup when playing an alien for SWRPG, i will not limit their choice. Now i won't just give them that character either, i will ask them for their 'understanding on the race' after letting them read the races write up in the Alien guides..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Volar the Healer]

I see no reason why a new player shouldn't be allowed to role play an alien. I would help her by downloading everything I could find on Triani and giving it to her. Tell her if she want to play an alien, go for it, don't be a 'human in a suit' - bring the alien to life. Give her an extra CP for doing something "alien" each game. Dock her a CP if she doesn't do something "alien" each game. The background material and CP prodding should be enough to help any role player to role play well in a role playing game.

As for the obnoxious GM, express to him you will hold him to a higher standard. You expect him to show the less experienced players "how it's done". Tell him he must remain 'in character' for the entire game session. Dock him one CP everytime he says anything out of character as soon as he does it. Either he will be prodded into the role of a player in your game, or he will leave in disgust - either way; problem solved.
_________________
Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace

[Jedi Skyler]

[Boomer]

Well I thank you all for your advice.

Bana has tried doing his business in front of my players, friends of mine, but I shut him out. He did get the chance to try the same thing in front one of HIS friends, and said before-hand his friend would back him up on this.
His friend saw things from my point of view, and told Bana to lighten up since it was obvious he was only making me angry, not "teaching" a thing.

And new player is so comfortable playing a Trianii, she even minds her tail, HER TAIL, always described in expressions like every other part of her, and she easily remembers the rules for it being prehensile and has used it several times.

Now, onto problem two tomorrow.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Jedi Skyler]

That's great, Boomer! And it helps that his own friend took your side on this. Experience doesn't always equate to wisdom- especially if you refuse to look past your own beak to learn from those around you.

Looking forward to helping with the next problem...

[KageRyu]

Sorry to come late, but I wanted to reassure that from my understanding, you are doing nothing wrong. I would never restrict a player toplaying only X race in any game, especially not Star Wars. There are a few races I have disallowed for them being too powerful or unbalanced in my mind's eye, but aside from that, I work with the players.

As for Bana, if he indeed has GMed for 23 years, he should know better than every thing you have described. First, inviting someone to join a group is not an invitation to take over the group. It is an invitation to be a player, nothing more. If Bana wants to be in charge, let him buy rule books, and write a campaign, and form his own group, or invite your group and yourself to join his campaign. Seniority and Age have nothing to do with who GMs. I find such a statement offensive, and if any player had said something like that to me, I would have outright banned him from my group and shown him the door on the spot.
While I do sometimes consider it permissible for players to express concerns during game, there is a right way and a wrong way. Sometimes players might be seeing things different from the GM, and so I try to let them express themselves so as to understand their point of view. If I feel the point of view is flawed, I try to best explain why without resorting to "because I said so", though if after debate it continues i will "Say so". For a player to be unable to express their concern, disagreement, or argument in a well thought out, logical, and informative manner without being rude, insulting, or mena is just poor role playing, and there is no place for it. Worse, for an alleged 23-year veteran GM to be unable to logically discuss or reason casts very poorly on him, and implies he is either not as experienced as he claims, or worse, he's one of those power-gaming wanker GMs that decides how successful a game is by PC bodycount and how many months his players complain about him.

well, I hope it works out.
_________________
"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[boldulyses]

Well, I've GMed for a couple of my own games, but my experience is somewhere around 10 years. I don't pretend to have any answers, I just like to ask the right questions.

I've already butt heads with my own GM a couple times, and while I ranted in my own head, I did my best to shut my mouth when it was clear that the GM had ruled. We both already admit that I have more print knowledge of Star Wars than he, but it's still his game.

The argument was about lightsaber weight: it doesn't have any. Everything I've read, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, has stated that the blade has no weight which is why it's so difficult to use. In theory, if it had weight, than any yahoo who could swing a bat would have little issue with a lightsaber. However, he tells me that Lucas always intended on the blades having weight.

Well, in the game that I run, in which he plays, it hasn't come up, but I'll be playing it that the blade has no weight. It's a minor issue, of course, but the concept is the same.

And as far as playing another race, I would think that someone who's used to playing a certain type of creature would have smoother transition playing that same character; it allows her to use what she knows about the kind of race she's playing to help her learn new rules. I'm all for it. Tell him to sit on his thumb if he can't play nice. :p
_________________
--------------------------------
"There comes a time in every man's life when he has to decide whether he wants to follow the path of the Jedi, or if he wants to be cool like Vader." -Unknown
My site sucks; check it out! I hope to improve it.