| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 616
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
|
 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:36 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Sutehp wrote: | Getting a bit off topic here, but since fogger and garhkal commented on the subject, I thought I'd chime in too:
During the Clone Wars, the troopers fought beside the Jedi for years, establishing camaraderie and rapport between the two. Many Jedi were friends (or at least friendly) with their troops. Not to mention that the clones turned on the Jedi as a result of the bio-chips implanted in their brains, which is essentially the biological equivalent of hidden programming. With both factors in play, it's hardly any wonder that so many Jedi were taken by surprise, even with the famed Jedi danger sense as a factor.
In the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, it's mentioned that there are two ways to kill a Jedi: either lull him into a false sense of security or overwhelm him with numbers. With Order 66, Darth Sidious did both at once. |
⬆⬆⬆THIS.⬆⬆⬆
| Sutehp wrote: | | KageRyu wrote: | | I must admit, now I am somewhat disappointed. I was looking forward to being able to play out epic Unicorn battles - with the horns making lightsaber sounds as they clashed. |
There's a solution, Kage! Just design a new Star Wars Unicorn-based species using the D6 rules! 
Of course, there's the whole problem of how they'll be able to fly a light freighter without opposable thumbs. Or fit into the cockpit of a starfighter. Or work a datapad. Or fit in a turbolift. Or disguise themselves as Imperial stormtroopers. Or ride in an escape pod. Or use a blaster. Or.... |
Or they have bioships they control with the force, cast illusions to be unseen, have pet humanoids....
_________________
Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
 
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sutehp
Commodore
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Inquisitor1138 wrote: |
Or they have bioships they control with the force, cast illusions to be unseen, have pet humanoids.... |
Unicorns with pet humanoids?? So basically unicorns running around with an entourage made up of Core World nobles and saying "These are my humans"?
In other words, unicorns acting like cats?
That's some seriously scary sh!t. 
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 616
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sutehp wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: |
Or they have bioships they control with the force, cast illusions to be unseen, have pet humanoids.... |
Unicorns with pet humanoids?? So basically unicorns running around with an entourage made up of Core World nobles and saying "These are my humans"?
In other words, unicorns acting like cats?
That's some seriously scary sh!t. |
From a certain point of view, yes...
_________________
Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kytross
Line Captain
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 806
|
| Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: What do you not like about WEG 2nd Edition R&E? |
|
|
| worfbacca wrote: | For me..
Once characters hit the 6D to 8D skill level nothing seems to be a challenge.
Grevious has to have something like 20D in lightsaber skill to be a threat as he is shown in the films to the Jedi.
Clone troopers killing Jedi during order 66? Unlikely using WEG core rules..
Actions in rounds take so dang long!
Force powers that take multiple actions..
Character Points are used for buffs and upgrades
Wookiee getting shot by blasters and shrugging it off |
For me it's the lack of simple rules for capital ships and large scale encounters. They have rules, and the rules work, but I'm a quick guy, I want something faster. Smoother.
All the things you mention here used to cheese me off, but now they make the game more fun for me.
- 6D-8D is not a guarantee that you'll beat a 4D-5D roll. It just puts the odds in your favor. We could all tell stories from our tables about that. Additionally, if a player has put in the time to get to heroic skill levels, they deserve the chance to do heroic things.
- More likely Grievous was around 10D in lightsaber. Kenobi beat him handily.
- Others have covered the clone thing, but one more point to make: Jedi generally only have 2D-4D STR. One good blaster bolt can be fatal, as seen in AotC.
- Fights do take a while, but that's part of the fun. It gets faster with more experienced players. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
- MAPS are well balanced, A Jedi Padawan, like we see in the movies, is an advanced character. I'm currently playing a Jedi Padawan survivor of the Clone Wars who started with 3D in Control, Sense, and Alter, and 1D in Lightsaber. Not an easy character to play. There are many, many situations I can't do well in. On the other hand, If I get Combat Sense going (+2D to all combat actions for 10 rounds and is not kept 'up') and then lightsaber combat up (sometimes by rolling concentration) and by round 3 or 4 of the fight I'm the most dangerous thing on the battle field.
- I enjoy character points being a limited resource. Especially as a GM. My players have to choose between upgrading their skills or improving their roles. It keeps them from hitting 6D in everything. As a player I RARELY use character points to improve roles, I hoard them to make skill upgrades. As long as the GM isn't giving out too many CPs, it is an essential part of game balance in D6.
- We've had this argument on the boards time and again. Last time for me was around Christmas and I got too busy in RL to finish defending my position. I love min-maxed characters. As a GM I put them in situations where their max skills are useless. The best times for my players are often when the Wookiee has to bargain to save the day. Or the Chadra-Fan gets in a fire fight. As a player I enjoy playing min-maxed characters knowing I'm going to have easy times and hard times. Remember, you can always have a Wookiee have to fight another Wookiee. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FVBonura
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Central PA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2024 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have had discussions about Scale on many forums all over social media. I sense it's the most common problem discussed about this game. I like the scale rules for R&E best because they are the easiest to execute in the heat of battle on a chaotic live game table. Clearly complaints led to a revision of the scale rules for D6 Space/D6 Spaceships. I think the core of the problem with Scale is the rules changed from 1.0e to 1.5e (Rules Companion), again with 2.0e, and again with 2.5e R&E. The rules changed and many asset stats were not translated well.
I put all the weapon stats, that had published prices, in the game on a spreadsheet to solve for price and the scale/pricing translation disaster became very conspicuous. For example when the Scale rules changed, Jabba's Sail Barge was set to Walker-scale and his deck gun that Luke & Leia used to destroy it was set to Speeder-scale. This changed the possibility of a single kill when The Twins aimed the cannon at the deck and destroyed the barge.
I do wish there was a better way to remember to apply Multiple Action Penalties. I have improved adjudicating this but was a problem years ago. I guess that was a me problem not a WEG problem. 
The price of Starfighter-scale weapons in Galaxy Guide 6 were off by an order of magnitude. Add a zero to the end of costs of all weapons in that book. There is a rule in the Rules Companion that adds 6,000 credits for mounting Starfighter-scale weapons on ships that few know about and were not copied into the second edition of GG6. Adding 6,000 credits was not even enough, multiply by ten aligned with all the weapons' costs much better. Galaxy Guide 6 did not have listings for prices and weights for stock weapons so you can subtract and add cargo capacites when upgrading/downgrading. My biggest peeve was GG6 did not have pricing for the drop-down cannons, like Han's, we see on the Millennium Falcon. Every gaming group I have GMed wants one and that is why I spent a decade solving for prices on a spreadsheet.
I love WEG, but these poor employees were rushed and kept to near-impossible deadlines. The result is we the Gamemasters have had to parse hundreds of typos and properly playtest this game to functional quality levels. We honor and love those inspired game designers by discussing honing and polishing the game to a mirror finish.
_________________
Star Wars Deckplans Alliance
Star Wars Prequel Commentary |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jtanzer
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 01 Mar 2023
Posts: 131
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2024 5:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't like to amount of crunch in 2e. It slows the game down, especially when with the scale system. 1e only has three scales, Character, Vehicle, and Capital. Capital ships are somewhat broken in that they're basically immune to starfighter attack (if I'm interpreting the rules correctly), however that's a small price to pay.
_________________
The best villians are the ones the PCs create. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FVBonura
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Central PA
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jtanzer wrote: | | I don't like to amount of crunch in 2e. It slows the game down, especially when with the scale system. 1e only has three scales, Character, Vehicle, and Capital. Capital ships are somewhat broken in that they're basically immune to starfighter attack (if I'm interpreting the rules correctly), however that's a small price to pay. |
I suspect that has more to do with game balance than anything else. WEG didn't want Players blowing up Star Destroyers so easily. It's not much of a stretch to assume destroying a capital scale ship requires swarms of fighters burning Character Points OR Force Points to crack their defences. I also think the rules clarification in the STAR WARS Adventure Journal applying Scale bonuses twice on shields and hull was a mistake. A squadron of A-wings took out the SSD Executor with combined missile fire so it at least has to be possible, if highly unlikely, in the game with all pilots spending copious CPs or FPs in the effort.
I sense it was WEG's bit of an overreaction to play results in games like in AD&D where players were killing gods in the game and not wanting to repeat that in Star Wars.
_________________
Star Wars Deckplans Alliance
Star Wars Prequel Commentary |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14303
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree. i can understand scale applying to hull, but not shields on top of that.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16381
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2024 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Agreed. I recycled the idea when I wrote up my Shields as Cover house rule, but it makes sense there since the Shield is treated as a separate object that the projecting ship is taking Cover behind.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FVBonura
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Central PA
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 11:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I just thought of another issue. We needed a comprehensive galactic map and we needed it in 1987. It is a shame the Galactic map project started in 1998 as WEG was in its financial death throws.
Had WEG started mapping in 1986, they would have had a map they could have added sectors and systems to as new worlds were added to the franchise. This would have allowed them to sell updated maps multiple times for some quick cash.
WEG could have allocated blank sectors where they never would place systems and we GMs could also add our own custom planets to without fear of overlap. Alas...
_________________
Star Wars Deckplans Alliance
Star Wars Prequel Commentary |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ziz
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Feb 2022
Posts: 120
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| FVBonura wrote: | I just thought of another issue. We needed a comprehensive galactic map and we needed it in 1987. It is a shame the Galactic map project started in 1998 as WEG was in its financial death throws.
|
OTOH, if someone were to start a map project now, it could be done in 3D with worlds on all different "levels" of space rather than having to keep squeezing them in between each other on a 2D printed map. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14303
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now that would be need.. SOmeone doing the galaxy in 3d!
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pakman
Commander
Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 462
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10488
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 5:33 pm Post subject: WEG's lack of galaxy mapping?! |
|
|
| FVBonura wrote: | I just thought of another issue. We needed a comprehensive galactic map and we needed it in 1987. It is a shame the Galactic map project started in 1998 as WEG was in its financial death throws.
Had WEG started mapping in 1986, they would have had a map they could have added sectors and systems to as new worlds were added to the franchise. This would have allowed them to sell updated maps multiple times for some quick cash.
WEG could have allocated blank sectors where they never would place systems and we GMs could also add our own custom planets to without fear of overlap. Alas... |
You may not be aware of this post-1998 EU book, Star Wars: The Essential Atlas. It has extensive galaxy maps. The WEG materials, the novels, comic books, etc. were all sources for the project. It was also the start of a continuing general EU Star Wars map project lead by one of the book's authors, Jason Fry. This project had an Essential Atlas Online Companion which released even more maps for free on StarWars.com. Wookieepedia is an easily-used resource for making sure GMs do not add their own custom planets/systems/sectors without fear of overlap, if that is important to a GM. See below for more...
| Ziz wrote: | | OTOH, if someone were to start a map project now, it could be done in 3D with worlds on all different "levels" of space rather than having to keep squeezing them in between each other on a 2D printed map. |
I doubt this will ever happen. In my communications with Jason Fry, it was confirmed that the premise of SW mapmaking includes no "3D" representations showing systems' z-axis positions ("up" or "down" from the galactic plane), for the convenience of 2D representations of the galaxy. Disney Canon thus far has adopted the same policy. I have bookshelves of evidence that Disney Canon publishing is, by default, intentionally less detailed than EU publishing was, so mapping out the galaxy in 3D would be the opposite of their MO. See below for more...
| pakman wrote: | | Also - space is big - REALLY big - so very easy to add as much as we want. |
I agree. It is a big galaxy and there is plenty of room for new things. Disney Canon doesn't even move any systems on the EU galaxy maps. As a general rule, they just fill in the blanks when adding new things. We can easily do that too.
In the premise of official Star Wars mapmaking (see above), sector border maps were only possible with the Expansion Region outward, because the regions inward from that have multiple sectors along the z-axis. So with any regions inward from Expansion Region, GMs can easily create entire original sectors of their own devices.
For the Expansion Region through the Outer Rim, there are plenty of un-detailed sectors which have not much more than "throwaway line" planet/system mentions in the EU, so they are ripe for GMs to develop more details for their campaigns.
GMs are free to add-on to the outside of the Outer Rim for original sectors they create.
And the above is all only if you care about adhering to published EU canon. If not, a GM can easily repurpose existing sectors for their campaigns, renaming them and disregarding published continuity as you see fit for your own game. Every GM should realize that their game's setting is their own SWU and they are free to alter even film planets/systems if they wish. GMs are really only limited by the limits of their own imagination.
I do not see WEG's lack of maps as a deficiency of the published game at all. My understanding of the spirit of this thread is not pointless complaints (what should have been), but rather deficiencies that we as GMs need to provide solutions for. Published and personal solutions are readily available for WEG's lack of maps before this game ceased publication in 1998.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
