Zack Snyder's Justice League

[Whill]

Some of you may be aware Zack Snyder's history of making DC films with Warner Brothers. Executive 'bottom line' thinking forced Snyder to cut 30 minutes from the Batman v Superman theatrical release's runtime due to the belief that box office success is dependent on 'random' movie goers who do not decide what movie they see until they get to the theater and look at the start times (shorter movies means more showings per day and thus greater odds that a movie starts soon and will be chosen). Before the pandemic I literally did not know any people that did not decide what film they are seeing in advance of going to the theater and then go to the theater at the appropriate time. And they usually already bought the tickets online. The end result of studio demands on BvS resulted in a movie with a convoluted plot that was difficult to follow. The theatrical film was still successful but not to the "Avengers" level of success, so Warner Brothers was disappointed. WB shifted the blame from their own meddling to the director. The home video release of BvS "Ultimate Edition" gave us the full uncut version of the film and it was much better.

The follow-up to BvS was Justice League. During post-production, tragedy struck the Snyder family when his adopted daughter died. Snyder kept working on the film from home to stay near his family. Then the studio shamelessly took advantage of the tragedy to rip control of the film from Snyder. They started making demands on the film to make it more like Marvel movies. When they demanded some overseas reshoots, Snyder was forced to quit the film because he could not leave his family, and the film quickly became not-his-film. They hired toxic Avengers director Joss Whedon to take over the film. He scrapped a large portion of Snyder's footage and had extensive reshoots, totally mutilating Snyder's vision and making a vaguely similar frankensteined movie with substantially altered plot and characters. Many characters were completely removed, including even the big bad guy. I still found things to enjoy in the 2017 version of Justice League, but it was disappointing.

Fan demand for the "Snyder Cut" of the Justice League film being finished and released was high. The movement raised over $600,000 for charity in the name of Zack Snyder's daughter (I contributed to this cause and got a cool t-shirt out of it too). AT&T, which had purchased Warner Brothers a few years ago, paid attention and decided to fund the millions Zack needed to finish the special effects of his Justice League, the originally intended film, as a vehicle for its streaming app, HBO Max. He took no payment for himself and put all the budget and his personal time into the film. It was released yesterday.

Man of Steel (2013)
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice [Ultimate Edition] (2016)
Zack Snyder's Justice League (2021)

Zack Snyder's Justice League is a four-hour story chaptered into a prologue, six parts, and an epilogue. Think of it as like a comic book limited series compiled into a cinematic trade paperback, or a short TV season available to binge (like The Mandalorian).

The plot never feels meandering and all the characterization along the way pays off in the drama of the epic final battle. By the end, nothing in the film feels extraneous, except maybe the long epilogue which largely sets-up originally planned sequels. Zack Snyder does not make your typical superhero movies. While those can be very enjoyable and fun, Snyder takes comic book films to a whole other level of art. I can't say it is my favorite superhero film, but I am absolutely certain Zack Snyder's Justice League will be remembered as a cinematic masterpiece, someday.

To maximize your Justice League experience, I suggest at least (re)watching Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Ultimate Edition) first. If SZ's JL is too much for you to binge in one sitting, then break it down into parts. (Between Parts 3 and 4 is a good break point for watching the film in two sittings.) The HBO Max streaming app has these films (and a whole lot more), and it is available to subscribe on a monthly basis with no obligation.

Parental Guidance: Some of the action scenes are bit more violent than most superhero films, with some blood and a bit of (mostly alien) gore. There are a few occurrences of profanity. But I think most 13 year-olds would probably be ok with watching this movie.


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[DougRed4]

I watched the whole four hour movie last night and thought it was a much improved film (though I thought the original was decent, too).
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[CRMcNeill]

Interesting. I may have to follow up on this. Is the Snyder Cut being released on disc, or is it just on HBO Max at the moment?
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[Whill]

[Whill]

[Whill]

We saw The Flash at the Thursday night preview tonight. It was pretty good.

The Flash movie was inspired by the 2011 Flashpoint comic book series/event in a couple key ways. That comic story was a very good one and used to reboot the DC comic continuity at the time. If you're not familiar with that, some of you may have seen the Flashpoint animated movie that (unlike The Flash) actually was an adaptation of the comic. Saying what in the new movie was similar to the original story might give spoilers, so I won't. Just know that familiarity with comic books (or that animated adaptation) is not needed to enjoy this movie, nor do they spoil the movie.

I posted about The Flash here because it doesn't really deserve its own thread, and The Flash referenced a Flash scene in Zack Snyder's Justice League (that was cut from the Joss Whedon's originally released theatrical version): the scene where Barry saved Iris West, who is a minor character in The Flash and played by the same actor. People who haven't seen Zack Snyder's Justice League will not understand one part of one conversation in The Flash. However, I must also mention for the record that there are a handful of inconsequential clues indicating that the director quietly envisioned The Flash as a sequel to ZSJL rather than than the "Josstice League."

The Flash is dependent on films that came before it. Not so much for continuity, but for characterizations, relationships, and drama of this film, so this movie is not really standalone for that reason. Michael Keaton's Batman is a supporting character in The Flash and he does get a new character arc, but it is 'a bit on the thin side' dramatically, so seeing the '89 Batman movie does help the viewer care (I can't in good conscience ever recommend watching Batman Returns). Without Man of Steel for context, General Zod and his plot falls kinda flat as a villain in The Flash. Seeing Justice League (at least the Whedon version), is important because three other members of the Justice League and Alfred appear in this film (and the other two members of the team are referenced a lot).

The Flash includes a lot of clever references to several DC franchises over the years (including behind-the-scenes stuff), but those basically amount to fun easter egg moments. And there is a humorous dialogue about Eric Stoltz playing Marty McFly in Back to the Future, which delightfully expands upon an easter egg in the Fringe TV series (probably the inspiration).

One thing that may seem jarring to some viewers is the video-gamish special effects inside the Speed Force, but the director says that was a intentional stylistic aspect of the film as we are supposed to be seeing it from Barry's view where reality is distorted.

Something I didn't care for much in The Flash is the 'retrocausality' time travel logic which is basically anything goes (linear when it suits the story's needs), but I can't really give details about that without spoilers. I was prepared for that a bit from the comics, but they took it to a new extreme here. I'll just say that it is a little easier for me to accept the time travel in this film if it is the case that we aren't seeing the first time loop and the first loop happened differently, but that requires a little "mental gymnastics." Let's just say there is some weird sh!t going on in the Speed Force dimension. And there is a key mystery in the film that is never solved, so it unfortunately feels like the villain changed during story development which unresolved that, or they were originally setting up a sequel that we'll now never see since they are rebooting the Justice League characters. But then again this film could easily be used to help explain the reboot, so maybe the plot thread will resurface in some way.

Overall The Flash is a fun adventure, a lot like Shazam! Fury of the Gods was. There is a lot of superhero action and humor. The movie clocks in at 2.5 hours and there is one stinger scene at the very end of the end credits.
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[Whill]

Sunday was National Cinema Day with $4 movie tickets at participating theaters. We saw the Blue Beetle movie. It was pretty good. Overall better than Black Adam anyway.

I have almost no background with the modern comic book version of the character. The comic book Blue Beetle from my childhood in the 80s (which was the return of the second 60s incarnation) was established as having existed in the world of the film and is the father of one of the characters in the film, which was a cool connection for me.

There weren't any tie-ins to any other DC films other than a couple dialogue references to Superman and Batman. A stinger sets up a sequel that will almost certainly never happen because the movie is doing poorly at the box office. I feel the superhero genre has oversaturated the market. The Aquaman sequel is currently still scheduled for December.
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[Whill]

We saw Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom today. It was pretty good but it is not doing well in the theater, following the trend set by the previous three DCEU films. It is the final movie in the "DCEU" franchise. Here is a brief recap.

SNYDERVERSE
First Time Viewing Order
1. Man of Steel
2. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Ultimate Edition)
3. Wonder Woman (framing story, main story is flashback taking place before MoS)
4. Zack Snyder's Justice League
Cancelled Films
Justice League 2
Justice League 3

The four made films above were all great! Man of Steel and Wonder Woman take place in both the above and below continuities.

And before anyone asks, the Snyderverse is completely dead. It will not be picked up by Netflix or anyone else. Warner still owns the rights to the characters and they are not going to license a competing alternative to their new DC film franchise starting in 2025. And the actors have moved on. What could have been will never be.

"DCEU" [w/ my overall general reaction]
Man of Steel [Great, as stated above]
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (theatrical version) [Good after multiple viewings and seeing the UE, which is better except one plot point]
Suicide Squad [Meh]
Wonder Woman [Great, as stated above]
Justice League (theatrical version) [Good]
Aquaman [Great]
Shazam! [Great]
Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) [Meh]
Wonder Woman 1984 [Some great action sequences trapped in a Meh film]
The Suicide Squad [Meh]
Black Adam [Disappointedly Meh]
Shazam! Fury of the Gods [Pretty good]
The Flash [Pretty good]
Blue Beetle [Pretty good]
Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom [Pretty good]

I have not seen the Peacemaker TV series (sequel to The Suicide Squad). I have no intention to as I have no interest. Supposedly a second season is still in the works.

Wonder Woman and Shazam! are both two of my favorite CBMs, up there with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

The Flash seems to unofficially continue from the Snyderverse rather than the theatrical JL, but the story creates the Burtonverse on its way to creating the Schumacherverse.
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[Whill]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/dc-heroes-role-playing-game-40th-anniversary

This Kickstarter got funded in minutes and now only has about 38 hours left. All stretch goals were met so the entire game line is being reproduced. Unfortunately, you can't order books individually so outside of the box sets, you have to order the other books in bundles.

Being a big DC Comics fan, I just couldn't resist getting in on this but I won't be getting the whole game line. The 1e box artist is George Pérez, my favorite comic book artist, so this will be the second RPG I'll have with a Pérez cover (the first being Champions 4e). I've heard that the sourcebooks and 'who's who' supplements were good, but outside of playing the game, they would probably only interest big DC comic fans.
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[garhkal]

As someone who's liked most DC live action films, even shazam and black adam, i was utterly unimpressed with the flash...
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[Whill]

[garhkal]

For me its those i have

Justice league
Batman vs supes
Green lantern
Wonder woman 1 (i can't stand the sequel)
Superman Man of steel
Shazam
Aquaman.
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[Whill]

The Wonder Woman sequel is a terrible movie overall, but in my recent rewatch I felt that the action scenes were amazing.

I was never a fan of Green Lantern, even as a Super Friends fan as a kid. But I did go see the film in the theater and gave it a shot. I am categorically opposed to all movies with a villain that is a giant head floating through space. That was one of the most ridiculous movies I have ever seen. Glad you liked it though!
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