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ForbinProject
Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016
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 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'm posting this thought here since it bears on this topic; has anyone ever considered merging Starfighter Piloting and Space Transports into a single skill and just calling it Starship Piloting? |
I'd say no. While the skills overlap there is a significant difference between the two. Just like there's a difference between driving a formula one race car and an 18 wheeler, or a speed boat and an oil tanker. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: | | Just like there's a difference between driving a formula one race car and an 18 wheeler |
Yet under the RAW, they would both be under the same skill: Ground Vehicle Operation.
| Quote: | | or a speed boat and an oil tanker. |
I'd still keep capital ships separate, but consider that many military pilots (who were flying high-performance fighter jets during active service) use the same basic skill set when transitioning to flying airliners or cargo plans as civilians. They don't have to learn a completely new skill.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10434
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'm posting this thought here since it bears on this topic; has anyone ever considered merging Starfighter Piloting and Space Transports into a single skill and just calling it Starship Piloting? |
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'd still keep capital ships separate, but consider that many military pilots (who were flying high-performance fighter jets during active service) use the same basic skill set when transitioning to flying airliners or cargo plans as civilians. They don't have to learn a completely new skill. |
This is exactly what I did. I recombined Space Transports Op with Starfighter Piloting, but kept Capital Ship Piloting separate. For the cinematic reality of my SWU, I think piloting space transports and starfighters uses the same skill, the main difference being that starfighters require higher skills.
BTW I decided to keep Repulsorlift Op as one skill with only three specializations: landspeeder, swoop/speeder and airspeeder. Airspeeders may need a little bit higher skill when not travelling navigational beam skyways like on Coruscant in AotC. The Landspeeder specialization would probably be more common than the Repulsorlift skill among NPCs across the galaxy.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:34 am Post subject: |
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I considered keeping Space Transports for Capital-Scale Freighters and the like, but the same logic applies to them as does combining fighters and transports; the actual skillset won't change all that much...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'm posting this thought here since it bears on this topic; has anyone ever considered merging Starfighter Piloting and Space Transports into a single skill and just calling it Starship Piloting? |
Several people have mentioned tey do that in their games, but for me, combining skills is makig things easier to raise up, and thus it easier for people to get high stats in a smaller # of skills.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'm posting this thought here since it bears on this topic; has anyone ever considered merging Starfighter Piloting and Space Transports into a single skill and just calling it Starship Piloting? |
Several people have mentioned tey do that in their games, but for me, combining skills is makig things easier to raise up, and thus it easier for people to get high stats in a smaller # of skills. |
That's how it was in 1e and I played that for years without having this issue. I'm a little stingier with CPs than in RAW, so PC advancement is slower and skills getting better faster has never been a problem with me.
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Last edited by Whill on Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ForbinProject
Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'd still keep capital ships separate, but consider that many military pilots (who were flying high-performance fighter jets during active service) use the same basic skill set when transitioning to flying airliners or cargo plans as civilians. They don't have to learn a completely new skill. |
But the reverse isn't true. You can't drop the average commercial pilot into a high performance fighter and expect him to well. He can probably fly the bird from point A to point B, but probably he'll die in his first combat because he wasn't trained to develop a fighter pilots instincts.
Would you trust a greenhorn Prius driver who never drove an 18 wheeler to drive your rig on icy roads, or in a storm, or down a steep mountain road, or maneuver thru city traffic. or even just backing up?
That being said, this is a game not real life and if you want to simplify things a bit to make things easier for your players then by all means do so. I can easily rationalize that those instincts I mentioned are developed in the simulators they mention in the X-Wing novels. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: | | You can't drop the average commercial pilot into a high performance fighter and expect him to well. He can probably fly the bird from point A to point B, but probably he'll die in his first combat because he wasn't trained to develop a fighter pilots instincts. |
True, but as far as rules go, I'd say that's more a representation of relative skill level than a difference in the basic controls. They may be vastly different in size and performance, but an airliner is still going to use a stick-and-rudder control set up, just like a fighter. I'm willing to guess that the same holds relatively true for starfighters and space transports.
Of course, relative familiarity is also an issue. It my be worthwhile to apply an Unfamiliarity Penalty, either in the form of minus dice or increased Difficulty for the first few times he tries to operate it...
| Quote: | | Would you trust a greenhorn Prius driver who never drove an 18 wheeler to drive your rig on icy roads, or in a storm, or down a steep mountain road, or maneuver thru city traffic. or even just backing up? |
Ideally, I think most vehicles should have a base operating Difficulty, much like the RAW provides with Melee Weapons. Want to use it? Roll the appropriate Mechanical skill against the Difficulty and see if you make it. Driving a Prius would be in the Very Easy range; driving a semi-truck would be around Moderate. Similar difficulties would apply to starfighters, space transports, etc. That way, simply having dice in a given skill would not be sufficient to allow you to operate every conceivable vehicle of that class; you would, however, at least be able to get behind the wheel and identify the basic controls (a semi and a Prius both operate using steering wheels, pedals, dash gauges and the like, the truck just has more of them.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: |
But the reverse isn't true. You can't drop the average commercial pilot into a high performance fighter and expect him to well. He can probably fly the bird from point A to point B, but probably he'll die in his first combat because he wasn't trained to develop a fighter pilots instincts. |
Speaking to several of my AF buddies, it seems always easier to go small TO large, but hard as heck to go in reverse..
| ForbinProject wrote: | | Would you trust a greenhorn Prius driver who never drove an 18 wheeler to drive your rig on icy roads, or in a storm, or down a steep mountain road, or maneuver thru city traffic. or even just backing up? |
Nope. Heck i know some who are all great in driving (2 even do minor level races such as those muddy as hell races with those funky box cars), yet if you put them in an 18-wheeler, they can't drive it for s***.
| CRMcNeill wrote: |
Ideally, I think most vehicles should have a base operating Difficulty, much like the RAW provides with Melee Weapons. Want to use it? Roll the appropriate Mechanical skill against the Difficulty and see if you make it. Driving a Prius would be in the Very Easy range; driving a semi-truck would be around Moderate. Similar difficulties would apply to starfighters, space transports, etc. That way, simply having dice in a given skill would not be sufficient to allow you to operate every conceivable vehicle of that class; you would, however, at least be able to get behind the wheel and identify the basic controls (a semi and a Prius both operate using steering wheels, pedals, dash gauges and the like, the truck just has more of them. |
Which i have often agreed with you on..
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FVBonura
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Central PA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2024 11:25 am Post subject: Re: A-24 Sleuth Scout Ship...skill used? |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | The INCOM A-24 Sleuth Scout ship.
RAW says you need a space transports skill to operate this vessel.
But it is pretty small and seems to share a lot of qualities of a large star fighter.
Would you allow a PC to use Pilot Starfighter skill to fly this baby? |
Well done sir, you have a valid point. I have a tendency to embrace the Rules As Written when sharing concepts publically on my website. Having said that, if something is wrong I embrace the solution.
The ship was too small for its role as described on my site. I was forced to make compromised concessions in the stats and design. One of many shoehorn jobs because many ships are too small. For more info please read: Ship of Riddles (Archive Edition). Due to my latest research, if I were to build this scout today, I would have increased its size by 50% and made it 21 meters long. At that size, there would be no confusion as to what skill would be the best fit for piloting. Thank you for bringing this up.
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FVBonura
Lieutenant Commander
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Posts: 137
Location: Central PA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Update: I am remastering, to our latest 2D graphic standards, the INCOM A-24 Sleuth deckplan at 150% or 21 meters long. Yes it will only be in a 2D GIF format, for now, but it will solve all the room problems. I'll try to spend an hour a day on it. The work is going quickly. The older model will still be available in the "Old Ships Gallery". Thank you Rancor Pit for exposing the problem.
Linking to the other thread: Incom A-24 Sleuth (updated).
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FVBonura
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Central PA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Due to the fact you pointed out the problems with this scout ship. You will reap the rewards first. I finished the art for Christmas so that I could give this forum a gift. Behold the 21 meter INCOM A-24 Sleuth Scout Ship. Webpage coming soon.
There should no longer be any confusion as which mechanical skill best fits the ship, Space Transports. I look forward to your peer review.
INCOM A-24 Sleuth Scout Ship
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO THE RANCOR PIT MEMBERSHIP!!!
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