Turrets, Fire Arcs & MAPs

[CRMcNeill]

A thought…

While turreted weapons can attack targets in any fire arc, it occurs to me that, were a turret to attempt attacking targets in multiple fire arcs simultaneously, it should be subject to more penalties than just the standard MAP, representing the challenge represented of making a rapid change in orientation needed to rapidly shift a weapon to bear in a completely different direction.

In game terms, I’m thinking a -1D penalty for every additional Fire Arc a turreted weapon fires into in the same round. This is in addition to normal MAPs. In simulationist terms, this allows multiple attackers to saturate and overwhelm enemy defenses by dividing their attention and deliberately attacking from multiple directions at once. There’s even potential room for a Tactics roll allowing one attacker to bait the defenses while a second attacker Surprises the target by coming at it from an unexpected angle while its attention was focused on the first attacker.

Discuss.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

I've thought of doing similar before, but the one dm i know who actually implemented it, had a massive 'strike' on his hands from 5 of us players, because that made having a turret not as usable as fixed weaponry.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Ziz]

I get the logic you're going for but it's hard to picture it. Can you whip up some diagrams, a la football plays - Xs, Os, arrows, and such?

[CRMcNeill]

[cheshire]

I get what you're saying. Yes, it would take more time to track targets that are 180 degrees apart from one another. Less so from 90 degrees, and even less than those who are on the same general arc.

But I think to try and apply more penalties beyond the MAPs is more mechanics for less fun, imo. This same logic would apply with a pistol and a firefight. It would apply for multiple targets in a melee battle. Yes, it's more difficult in a real-life situation. But the reason why I like D6 is that it does not get bogged down in the minutiae. GURPS is there anytime I want that level of detail.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[garhkal]

I could see more of a penalty to shooting, in ground combat, if you're having to shoot say a target in your 10 oclock arc, then shift around to shoot one in your 4 oclock arc..
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Whill]

[cheshire]

That seems a lot more reasonable.
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__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

[garhkal]

Maybe those with turrets (Y/wings, most freighters), wouldn't have that problem.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Mamatried]

I think it is important to distinguish between fixed weapon fighters and fighters with turrets that some very rare ones have.

With this being about turrets I belive light frighters and larger ships are the relevant thing to look at.

if we kook at AnH and the scene where the falcon is attacked by Tie fighters I would not issue any MAPs at all to the gunner.

Luke (and Han) mans a turret, it has 360 sidewways traverse and seems to have 180 to 270 degrees up and down traverse as well as "auto" or repeating fire.

I can not see how sitting in an "auto" trurret in any should give map for changing fire arch, it makes no sense.
Look to real world ww2 bombers, the turrets were spesificly designed for "ease of use" and any and all forms of sideways and up-down traverse is already measured into the turrets capaciy.

What I would do is to use the fire control, reduce it in lieu of MAP. and even allow multiple shots.

Again going back to other discussions about autofire and the like.

So Luke is in the falcon fireing at the Attacking TIEs, and so is Han, with Chewie doing the flying.

Chewie IMO would have to fly and use countermesures, like shields and even change the arch or them.
This will give the Pilot MAP, but reduced by the ship's systems, like the manuverability (bonus) and calculate that in to any MAP penalty.

The gunners on the otherhand would IMO only have MAP calculated if they fire more than once (or what weapon allows) times in a round, with any and all directional movement being free actions. it is the onlynthings that makes sense.

So back to the falcon, the gunner would have a fire control rating, calculated into any possible MAP. he would only get MAP with fireing more times than 1 or 2 shots a round, and we can argue that a rapid fire wepon should incure MAP at a slower pace than a non rapid fire one, anything lese is just not logical to me.

So the cannons appeared to have a fairly slow repeating fire, making it a repeater cannon with "auto" fire capabilities.

The cannon on the falcon here has 4 barrels, with two and two fireing at the same time, retracting the "non firing" barrel pair and extracring the firing ones.

SO I would allow the gun to fire BOTH shots in this case, using the fire control and NOT incure MAP.

First shot is roll + firecontrol. Second shot is roll + firecontrol -1D to compencate for the MAP that would normally incure.
Depending on firecontrol this is a value that varies. some wepons having 2D and some having 3D and more, allowing more shots from the weapon before MAP.

After all it is a ship with a crew, with "designated" gunners, pilots and shield/countermeasures operator, each doing ONE job, using inbuilt system in the ship and weapon suite to allow for MAP compencation.

So Luke would be able to shoot "normally" so would HAN, both would benefit from the repeating rate of fire and would reduce the fire control only while using the weapon turret.

Once they shoot more then we first reduce firecontrol dice, and only then apply MAP.
So if the cannon is now fired 4 times in a round, this is "auto/rapid fire" and the weapon has a +2D firecontrol, then shot 1 is fired with no MAP and full firecontrol bonus, finrecontrol is both traverse and targeting controls.
Second shot will reduce the firecontrol by 1D, still no MPA for the gunner as the Firecontrol dice still has a positive value.
Third shot is now fired at skill roll only, with the firecontrol reduced to 0D and still will not incure any MAP.
Now on the fourth shot here, we will have a MAP incured of .1D to the roll but not before the 4th shot in this case.

This is to me the only way to propperly simulate any form of rapid fire from a turrest, stationary ot otherwise starship weapon.

So with the firecontrol replacing any MPA penalties, we can now actually use a turbolaser, a gun turret etc in a make sense way.

I would also say that it should apply to any and all weapons with a fire control Dice, be them hand held or otherwise.

I do not see how this can break the system or be overly powerful in any way, but totally make sense.

An assault craft firing in ONE arch theri torpedos with 3D firecontrol can fire 1 time with full fire control, another iwht -1D to fire control and so on, with map only occuring whrn the fire control dice is spent (being +0D).
I will not call a ship firing Once every 5 secods as asulting anything, but a ship that comes in and fires several times ato overwhelm the defender is assualting.

So to me I would use and reduce fire control and allow actions with no MAP until the fire control dice is reduced to 0D, and then give map on subsequent actions.

This could also be used with rapid/repeating fire, where a weapon may be designed to fire multiple shots.
If a mutlit barrel cannon we use the "linked" bonus for barrel pairs.

Again the Falcon and Luke in the turret we would link the upper pair of barrels and the lower pair seperately, each pai firing with the linked bonus, for the added damage and so on.

so in short, link pairs and then use the fire control dice before adding in any MAP penalties.