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S-Foils
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After some rumination, I’m considering making the U-Wing distinction between Maneuverability and Hyperdrive, with the “open” position increasing Maneuverability by 1D, but adding +5 to all Astrogation Difficulties (on account of the increased volume of the hyperdrive field relative to the “closed” position). Still not perfect, but it’s the best functional explanation I’ve been able to come up with, in conjunction with the above rules for the X- and B-Wings.

EDIT: Another possibility would be Maneuverability vs. Speed, with the "closed" mode being faster, but less maneuverable.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, here's what I'm thinking for the U-Wing, with the S-Foil positioning affecting Astrogation, Maneuverability and Atmosphere. My reasoning is that, like all S-Foils, they contain the main components of the ethereal rudder system, and that moving them out to either side increases the rudder's effectiveness, but also expands the volume of the ship's hyperdrive field (thus decreasing hyperspace speed). This has a similar effect on the ship's navigation shields in atmosphere, as the larger, wider profile (relative to the "closed" S-Foils position) requires more energy to maintain, which is diverted from the ship's drives, thus decreasing the speed. Thus, U-Wing pilots tend to operate with their S-Foils closed when speed is preferable, and open when maneuverability is needed. In addition, U-Wings will close their S-Foils when landing whenever possible as it decreases their landing pad "footprint".

Another thing I'm considering including is having the "closed" S-Foils slightly reduce the ship's Sensor signature, on account of being a narrower physical profile, with less energy going to the navigation shielding.

Game stats would be modified as follows:
    Navcomputer: +5 to all Astrogation Difficulties when S-Foils open.
    Maneuverability: +2 to Maneuverability when S-Foils open.
    Atmosphere: 350; 1,000 kph (3D+2 / 2D) when S-Foils closed.
    Sensors: +1 to opposed Sensor Difficulty when S-Foils closed.
Taken together, this resolves most of my issues with the lack of apparent pattern of the U-Wing's S-Foil usage in Rogue One:
    -On the takeoff from Yavin, they weren't in a rush, and wanted the added maneuverability (wings open) to navigate Yavin's relatively complicated system geometry.
    -Once clear and ready to jump to hyperspace, closed S-Foils to reduce Astrogation Difficulty.
    -Arrival at Jeddha, they want the reduced sensor profile, so keep the S-Foils closed.
    -Escaping Jeddha, they want the added atmospheric speed and the reduced Astrogation Difficulty, so keep the S-Foils closed.
    -Arrival at Eadu, they want the reduced sensor profile, but it costs them maneuverability (which potentially contributes to the crash).
    -Attacking Scariff, they want the added speed to get through the shield gate before it closes, but then once they're engaged in atmospheric combat, Maneuverability is paramount, so they open them.
    -When landing troop reinforcements for the ground battle, they close the S-Foils, but reopen them at some point after takeoff.

Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Okay, here's what I'm thinking for the U-Wing, with the S-Foil positioning affecting Astrogation, Maneuverability and Atmosphere. My reasoning is that, like all S-Foils, they contain the main components of the ethereal rudder system, and that moving them out to either side increases the rudder's effectiveness, but also expands the volume of the ship's hyperdrive field (thus decreasing hyperspace speed). This has a similar effect on the ship's navigation shields in atmosphere, as the larger, wider profile (relative to the "closed" S-Foils position) requires more energy to maintain, which is diverted from the ship's drives, thus decreasing the speed. Thus, U-Wing pilots tend to operate with their S-Foils closed when speed is preferable, and open when maneuverability is needed. In addition, U-Wings will close their S-Foils when landing whenever possible as it decreases their landing pad "footprint".

Another thing I'm considering including is having the "closed" S-Foils slightly reduce the ship's Sensor signature, on account of being a narrower physical profile, with less energy going to the navigation shielding.

Game stats would be modified as follows:
    Navcomputer: +5 to all Astrogation Difficulties when S-Foils open.
    Maneuverability: +2 to Maneuverability when S-Foils open.
    Atmosphere: 350; 1,000 kph (3D+2 / 2D) when S-Foils closed.
    Sensors: +1 to opposed Sensor Difficulty when S-Foils closed.
Taken together, this resolves most of my issues with the lack of apparent pattern of the U-Wing's S-Foil usage in Rogue One:
    -On the takeoff from Yavin, they weren't in a rush, and wanted the added maneuverability (wings open) to navigate Yavin's relatively complicated system geometry.
    -Once clear and ready to jump to hyperspace, closed S-Foils to reduce Astrogation Difficulty.
    -Arrival at Jeddha, they want the reduced sensor profile, so keep the S-Foils closed.
    -Escaping Jeddha, they want the added atmospheric speed and the reduced Astrogation Difficulty, so keep the S-Foils closed.
    -Arrival at Eadu, they want the reduced sensor profile, but it costs them maneuverability (which potentially contributes to the crash).
    -Attacking Scariff, they want the added speed to get through the shield gate before it closes, but then once they're engaged in atmospheric combat, Maneuverability is paramount, so they open them.
    -When landing troop reinforcements for the ground battle, they close the S-Foils, but reopen them at some point after takeoff.

Thoughts?



Based on what we saw in rogue one, that certainly seems like how the U-wings foils were for.. Though maybe the door can't be opened when the foils are open?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Though maybe the door can't be opened when the foils are open?

That seems… excessively restrictive. It’s not like the wing physically blocks the door or anything, and it’d be awfully stupid of the design team to render the most obvious emergency exit inoperable in the event of damage or a crash.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on what we saw, the doors were only opened when the foils were closed.. SO its a safe assumption.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Based on what we saw, the doors were only opened when the foils were closed.. SO its a safe assumption.

It’s a silly assumption, though. Why would the designers permit / allow a complete lockout of the main egress point from the ship just because the wings aren’t in the proper position. It’s a design oversight that could get people killed and limits utility for no other reason than to create an arbitrary game complication. Even if it did happen due to a design oversight, it’s one of the first things that would be removed after the first few (dozen) times crews get locked inside because the wing actuators got damaged. Even if Incom didn’t make changes, it’s almost certainly a field modification the techs would make.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Foils Reply with quote

In Legends, the S-foils seem to primarily be used for heat dispersion. In some ships, they have the added purpose of improving weapon accuracy and/or atmospheric stabilization.

Canon indicates S-foils with weapons improve accuracy. For U-wings, S-foils extend out/aft for combat mode, providing improve shield coverage and disperse heat. But the increased wingspan became a liability in rough atmospheric conditions so it was usually only used in high atmosphere or space.

Based on this, I wouldn't make a general rule for "S-foils" at all. It seems to be a 'per ship' thing.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Based on what we saw, the doors were only opened when the foils were closed.. SO its a safe assumption.

It’s a silly assumption, though. Why would the designers permit / allow a complete lockout of the main egress point from the ship just because the wings aren’t in the proper position. It’s a design oversight that could get people killed and limits utility for no other reason than to create an arbitrary game complication. Even if it did happen due to a design oversight, it’s one of the first things that would be removed after the first few (dozen) times crews get locked inside because the wing actuators got damaged. Even if Incom didn’t make changes, it’s almost certainly a field modification the techs would make.


I am not saying they can't ever be opened. Most doors have some sort of manual override. Its just that they're not configured to open in that config, naturally.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: S-Foils Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I wouldn't make a general rule for "S-foils" at all. It seems to be a 'per ship' thing.

Agreed. I’m trying to custom tailor rules for individual ship types depending on how the S-Foils integrate into the ship’s overall structure, and excluding ships that appear to only change foil configuration for landing purposes.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I am not saying they can't ever be opened. Most doors have some sort of manual override. It’s just that they're not configured to open in that config, naturally.

The only reason to deliberately do that would be if it presented some sort of safety issue, such as being in close proximity to active repulsorlifts or the etheric rudder system, but there’s no evidence of anything of the sort in-universe.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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