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DougRed4
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Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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It was interesting to re-read this entire thread.
| atgxtg wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: |
I realize that, but the problem is that that ability to be evasive should be a cross-skill ability, as a person who has a high Melee Combat / Parry (whichever you use) does not become a clumsy idiot just because they switch to Brawling Combat / Parry. That ability to evade attacks should stay with them regardless. |
To some extent. Not having a weapon will cramp thier style though.
I suggest letting them use melee parry but at a disadvantage (probably 5 point) kinda like how they let character use brawling parry against melee attacks (at a 10 point disadvantage) in the RAW. |
Is the using Brawling Parry instead of Melee Parry (at -10) from 1E or 2E or something?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | Is the using Brawling Parry instead of Melee Parry (at -10) from 1E or 2E or something? |
It's in the RAW for Reaction skills in 2R&E, pg. 90. I quoted it here as part of my reasoning for combining the two into a Defense skill.
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | DougRed4 wrote: | | Is the using Brawling Parry instead of Melee Parry (at -10) from 1E or 2E or something? |
It's in the RAW for Reaction skills in 2R&E, pg. 90. I quoted it here as part of my reasoning for combining the two into a Defense skill. |
I didn't know that (or, actually, had forgotten that). Thanks!
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Bringing this back up with a related question. So by the quote provided, someone shot at underwater uses their swimming skill as the 'dodge' roll. BUT what about if they're being brawled (or melee). IS that still their swim skill? |
No. The correlation is using the movement skills for dodging range attacks while in that mode of movement/environment. Brawling parry or melee parry would still be used underwater. |
Shouldn't there be a penalty to brawl/melee underwater? Even if it was just you're limited to brawlng only, no martial arts, for melee, only thrusting weaponry, not slashing or 'bludgeoning' style melee weapons, and vibros are out? Or something like that?
Seems strange to me, that if Dodging under water is limited to your swim rating, that Brawling/melee wouldn't likewise..
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | The correlation is using the movement skills for dodging range attacks while in that mode of movement/environment. Brawling parry or melee parry would still be used underwater. |
Shouldn't there be a penalty to brawl/melee underwater? Even if it was just you're limited to brawlng only, no martial arts, for melee, only thrusting weaponry, not slashing or 'bludgeoning' style melee weapons, and vibros are out? Or something like that? |
I was mainly answering that from a rules perspective, it was only dodging that was specified as using the swimming skill underwater. RAW does not indicate brawling and melee change skills underwater.
As far as penalizing brawling/melee underwater, that is a different question. Yes, the attacks and the parries should be penalized, but then again, that's a wash so for simplicity you could just let the rolls happen normally. If you want to penalize based on hydrodynamic considerations of the shape of each weapon, that makes sense but would be a little more complicated.
For a cinematic reference of fighting underwater, here a collection of clips from the first Jackie Chan movie I ever saw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh1H_nlN4PI&t=40s
| Quote: | | Seems strange to me, that if Dodging under water is limited to your swim rating, that Brawling/melee wouldn't likewise. |
In space, you roll a ship piloting skill for your movement roll (difficulty based on speed, "terrain" and any fancy maneuvering). You also use the same piloting skill for evading attacks (ship dodges). You don't use the piloting skill for sensors/communications, astrogation, or anything else you do in space. The same principle applies to any vehicle. You use one skill for movement and vehicle dodge rolls, then different applicable skills for anything else.
Dodge is a character movement skill, but you move underwater with the swimming skill. Swimming is not a catch-all do-everything underwater skill, so you wouldn't use swimming to brawl or melee just like you wouldn't use a piloting skill to fire the quad laser cannons or angle shields.
And your statement only seems to make sense under an assumption that the purpose of the rule to penalize due to all characters having a lower swimming skill than dodge skill. Characters can have higher swimming skills, which would mean they are better at "dodging" in water than out of water. Some amphibious species come with a bonus to swimming rolls. Some characters should be better in water than out of water. Do your characters never improve swimming? I'm guessing that would be because they never have a chance to use it. Most worlds habitable by human-like species would have oceans like Earth. Swimming is an important skill in my game. More important than brawling or melee.
What's strange to me that for all forms of movement, the same skill is used for movement and dodge rolls except for running in the presence of gravity on a surface surrounded by a gaseous atmosphere. It's odd that is the only situation you have two separate skills for dodging and all other movement. In the 1e Rules Companion, the dodge skill was used for both kinds of character movement rolls in that situation. In Blue Vader, they split the skill into two and give us running and dodge, but they didn't split any of the other movement skills. They could have just renamed it running/dodge and left it one skill like every other movement situation in the game.
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