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Inquisitor1138
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Joined: 28 Nov 2021
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Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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 Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:39 pm Post subject: Ghtroc Industries - WHEN did they go under? |
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Neither Canon nor Legends has a clear answer, simply before the Battle of Yavin is the most any fluff/Lore gives. I was wondering if there was a consensus as to when this happened?
Was it before the Clone Wars? Or after?
The Lore seems to suggest that the Empire had a hand in the company's demise, so the early Imperial Era, c.19-14 BBY seems the most likely.
What do you think?
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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First i am hearing that the company even went under...
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10435
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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First I am learning that the company was based on the Bith homeworld. Cool that the species had a starship company. Their ships are still hideous looking.
Wookieepedia's Cargo Empress article indicates that the company went defunct "by" the Imperial era, which would mean before the Empire. However the source that they cite for that may not actually come out and say that.
So it probably has never been officially determined and I doubt that there is any fan "consensus" about anything so trivial. Sorry. I tried to be helpful.
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Inquisitor1138
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Joined: 28 Nov 2021
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:53 pm Post subject: Canon Conflict? Begun, the FAN WARS have... |
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| Whill wrote: | First I am learning that the company was based on the Bith homeworld. Cool that the species had a starship company. Their ships are still hideous looking.
Wookieepedia's Cargo Empress article indicates that the company went defunct "by" the Imperial era, which would mean before the Empire. However the source that they cite for that may not actually come out and say that.
So it probably has never been officially determined and I doubt that there is any fan "consensus" about anything so trivial. Sorry. I tried to be helpful. |
i have checked all WEG books & SWAJ issues i can find.
i do not have the 2020 Fantasy Flight Games Star Wars Roleplaying supplement Starships and Speeders, which seems to be the source of the claim in the Cargo Empress' Canon article.
I seem to recall a WEG source suggesting the Empire had a hand in Ghtroc's demise, early in the Imperial era, but i can't find it now & a computer crash messed up some notes.
In my headcanon, i have Ghtroc going under in early 17 BBY. This makes them 2 yrs gone in 15 BBY.
Czerka was planning on scooping up all Ghtroc assets & clients, but were beaten to the punch; Sigiltech Systems & Novoil Cluster StarGoods grab ≈90 of Ghtroc Industries' assets, including unfinished ships & hulls...
Both Sigiltech Systems & Novoil Cluster StarGoods are making & selling Refurbished/remanufactured starships...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Their ships are still hideous looking. |
Which is a shame, because “sea turtle in space” has real aesthetic possibilities. It’d be nice to see an artist redo the Ghtroc into something players might actually want to be seen flying.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Which is a shame, because “sea turtle in space” has real aesthetic possibilities. |
That is a sentence I would never have imagined existing. The premise of “sea turtle in space” is where it went wrong, lol.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | It’d be nice to see an artist redo the Ghtroc into something players might actually want to be seen flying. |
It was designed by preeminent WEG Star Wars artist Mike Vilardi, and all Ghtroc 720 art I've seen by other artists is even worse, so I just can't imagine any redos looking any better.
I've never had any Ghtroc ships as PC ships, and I do not think I've even had any appear in my games as NPC ships since the 90s. But a version of the Hurshuka (from D6 Space Aliens) exist in my SWU, and at some point I will have one appear as an NPC. They will naturally have a Ghtroc ship, maybe now with a Bith copilot.
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:57 pm Post subject: The Turtle - Native American Center for the Arts — PRS |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | Their ships are still hideous looking. |
Which is a shame, because “sea turtle in space” has real aesthetic possibilities. It’d be nice to see an artist redo the Ghtroc into something players might actually want to be seen flying. |
Perhaps not the prettiest, but to me they have a quirky rustic charm. But then i grew up in Western New York, where i was enamored of the The Turtle in Niagara Falls, a building designed as a huge turtle.
The Turtle - Native American Center for the Arts — PRS
[img]https://www.preservationready.org/Buildings/TheTurtle?action=download&upname=TurtleDrawing1.jpg[/img]
I always enjoyed visiting it when i was a kid, whether it was a family excursion or school field trip or special event.
And now i'm remembering things i haven't thought of in years, like the CO2-powered racer i made from a block of wood in shop class.
I carved it into a snake & painted it green with some details in yellow & black.
It didn't win any race, but it tied for 1st place for design - i was blown away.
I didn't know that was a thing, until it was announced in class & given the trophy. The other car i had never seen but i was told the other winner was an art major.
Now i wanna make serpentine swoops & starshipsss...
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10435
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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The couple times my family went to Niagra Falls in my childhood, we spent all our time on the Canadian side, so I've never been there. I was told the Canadian side was better but I had no basis for comparison. No passports needed back then.
That building may have very well been the inspiration for the Ghtroc 720!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | That is a sentence I would never have imagined existing. The premise of “sea turtle in space” is where it went wrong, lol. |
I disagree. There’s plenty of precedent for sci-fi ships shaped to resemble sea creatures. Where the Ghtroc fails is the squared-off sides and back end. If it were more curved, and the tail was narrower with the sides tapering down into it, it would be greatly improved. All that’s needed is an artist with the right skills and vision to pull it off. Even Mike Vilardi can’t bat 1.000.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:10 pm Post subject: Xenophobia Vs. Diversity |
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The still unnamed 'Class 747' Ghtroc i made for a fallen Jedi, is made from two 720 hulls & a 630. He gotten a few upgrades when it was being built (oh darn, i've got a hiccup in my Timeline; i'll have to fix that after i exile or kill this kriffffing headache), then took it to the Gree for some upgrades. Shortly after that he went to a guild of Ongree Outlaw Techs he was familiar with from before Order 66, for most of the concealed weapons added.
I'm gonna make a bunch of Bith soon, criminal, fringer types & more. A bunch in the Zann Consortium, & some for the Empire... I need more aliens. Too many humans is boring. SW isn't '60s sci-fi.
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The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14213
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | That is a sentence I would never have imagined existing. The premise of “sea turtle in space” is where it went wrong, lol. |
I disagree. There’s plenty of precedent for sci-fi ships shaped to resemble sea creatures. Where the Ghtroc fails is the squared-off sides and back end. If it were more curved, and the tail was narrower with the sides tapering down into it, it would be greatly improved. All that’s needed is an artist with the right skills and vision to pull it off. Even Mike Vilardi can’t bat 1.000. |
Just look at the pulsar scate..
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | Their ships are still hideous looking. |
Which is a shame, because “sea turtle in space” has real aesthetic possibilities. It’d be nice to see an artist redo the Ghtroc into something players might actually want to be seen flying. |
I guess it is subjective, because my group and I back in the 90's always chose this ship over the YT-1300. It was a rare case of a truly new style in SW post Original Trilogy that wasn't either a chimera of recycled bits from other movie ships or a hideous failed attempt. |
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fogger1138
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Joined: 25 Feb 2021
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Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I guess it is subjective, because my group and I back in the 90's always chose this ship over the YT-1300. It was a rare case of a truly new style in SW post Original Trilogy that wasn't either a chimera of recycled bits from other movie ships or a hideous failed attempt. |
Yeah, I always liked the design. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I guess it is subjective, because my group and I back in the 90's always chose this ship over the YT-1300. It was a rare case of a truly new style in SW post Original Trilogy that wasn't either a chimera of recycled bits from other movie ships or a hideous failed attempt. |
Of course, it is subjective.
Yours wasn't the only player group I know of that used the Ghtroc 720 in their game back then. I get it. It was a new ship in 1992's Blue Vader (and in '97 we got a deck plan for it). It was something different than the YT-1300. My only campaign that had a YT-1300 PC ship was my very first one, and that is only because it was literally the only published light freighter at the time. Now I'm of the mind that the uniqueness of the Falcon should be supported to the point that I have declared for my SWU that the YT-1300 has been out production for so long that they are rare in the classic era. (This is not contradicted by the films that show the chronologically last non-Falcon YT-1300s appearing at the start of the Clone War.) They aren't so rare in the galaxy that everyone automatically assumes any YT-1300 with a starboard cockpit is the Falcon, but they are rare enough that it is not strange that non-Falcon YT-1300s never appear in my games at all.
Starting with my second campaign (1988), most of the player groups used a Lantillian GX1 based The Long Shot in the 1988 Campaign Pack. The Campaign Pack came with a big 8-page-sized heavy stock fold-out deck plan of it. One of my players nicknamed the Long Shot as "the grasshopper". That's not really cool looking ship either, but I feel it is better looking than the sea turtle. My 90s players must have agreed with me because no one wanted to start using the Ghtroc 720 when it came out in '92. Then again, the Long Shot was also not a YT-1300 but we had a nice deck plan for it, so that may have been the primary factor. My player groups didn't stop using GX1s until '97 when we got a lot more options with deck plans.
| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | I seem to recall a WEG source suggesting the Empire had a hand in Ghtroc's demise, early in the Imperial era, but i can't find it now & a computer crash messed up some notes.
In my headcanon, i have Ghtroc going under in early 17 BBY. |
The Ghtroc 720s ceasing production in the early Empire works for me. In my SWU they are more common the classic era than YT-1300s. At least one Ghtroc 720 will definitely appear in a campaign, and the PCs may even have a reason to travel in one for an adventure.
But what motivation would the Empire have for the demise of Ghtroc? Just general alien suppression like WEG had the Empire do to the Duros? If you ever find the source you are thinking of, please share it. Thanks.
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:08 pm Post subject: Ghtroc Industries Cargo Empress Superfreighter |
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I have re-checked the notes i currently have, rechecked Pirates & Privateers, then searched online sources.
From Ghtroc Industries Cargo Empress Superfreighter:
| Quote: | Optional Rules:
[a]Gamemaster's Back Story — The fall of Ghtroc Industries
Numerous rumors about the Cargo Empress have circulated after the demise of Ghtroc Industries. Most involve mechanical failures, or hull cracks formed from torsional stress, and some involve passengers and crew not making it to the escape pods in time, perishing with the ship. Most Cargo Empress captains keep the escape pods in the forward sections of the cargo hold not in their stock location in the aft upper deck. This procedure is common practice to facilitate a quick escape in an emergency. Rumors from the Rebel Alliance report imperial intelligence sabotaged the Cargo Empress program with slanderous Holonet news reports, and falsified fatality reports. Many theorize the empire saw the potential of these ships being converted into covert starfighter carriers, and were eliminated with financial warfare. Regardless the cause, the Cargo Empress was the last transport mass-produced by Ghtroc industries prior to the corporate collapse.
Please check with your Gamemaster to insure these optional rules are allowed and if any changes are needed to fit them into your campaign. |
Unlike the prior block of game stats which preceded it, this has no citation to any book, nor does it specify that it is an addition by the authors of the article, Frank V Bonura, “B.M.K”, and Sean Callahan. i am about to email Mister Bonura for clarification.
Side Note The Ghtroc 820 has ben entered into the New Canon, but with so little detail as to be almost useless. In my headcanon, its production was roughly concurrent with the Cargo Empress.
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