Lightsaber Dueling alternate rules

[ebertran]

Yes, I know there are 10000 variants of this here in the Pit, but I figured I'd add my take.

I've complained a lot about SW rpg's not really using the opportunity of a lightsaber duel to make it something unique from the rest of the game, so I'm putting together a little ruleset to try out and see if it does what I want.

It mostly ignores the RAW and does its own thing... I was inspired by Peter Schweighofer' Dueling Blades variant and the stunt system in Fantasy Age. I'm not done... there are some blank parts, but here's where I am headed...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eX11APMB7IGeYxGTXbO7Xv0xit6gJzZ7TgQv1CW1L4E/edit?usp=sharing

[CRMcNeill]

Some good stuff here. I’m already pretty far along on my own version, but I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[ebertran]

I appreciate that. You're a d6 mechanics machine, so getting a stamp of approval from you would be... eh, wizard!

[ebertran]

Here's where I am currently..
Duel of the Fates version .99

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qMPCNxyCXWbbDd2QCLcf5xfBx9TB7yzw/view?usp=sharing

[Whill]

[ebertran]

Question that came up: why would anyone even use exploits and not just add the duel die to the attack and hope for more damage?

Good question... maybe if there was some type of reward for using exploits? maybe these give out a certain number of CPs when used, and that can be a type of reward for selecting exploits at the expense of possible more damage?

[Mamatried]

[ebertran]

Agreed. That's turning into a CP cost.

[CRMcNeill]

How do you see the Force enhancing the duelists in this system?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[ebertran]

Real answer? Not sure. Dueling Blades doesn’t really use the force in that way. I tried to include force powers in exploits, and hope that it gives the duel plenty of Force using flavor, even if mechanically it’s not as force heavy as RAW.

[Mamatried]

[KageRyu]

I believe there are several possible pitfalls with these house rules, but I don't want you to feel I am just dumping on your ideas.

Matching Lightsaber Skills is a good step, and similar house rules have been proposed for Melee and Brawl/Martial Arts - to simplify such combat.

I feel Initiative Should be rolled each round - The Winner, and only the winner, should get a bonus to their Lightsaber roll (Either a flat 1D, or a Graded bonus based on levels of success).

I feel the Dueling die itself is problematic and should not be included.
I feel the exploits as they are, and the way they are presented, are a problem. The idea is not completely without merit, but I think there would need to be many changes/fixes. Perhaps basing them on existing Lightsaber moves or tricks seen in the films, giving them creative descriptive, and basing the "choices" based on the success threshold of the opposed rolls. Some ideas could include Feints, Defensive Stances, Rapid Strikes at lower success levels - trading off damage from the attack for some bonus the next round or this round (rolling two hits at reduced damage, or reduced damage to gain bonus to skill next round, etc...). At 2 and 3 success levels it could be things like, Stun, Distract, Thrown off ballance, Knockdown, Savage Blow (these would subject the oponent to a penalty on the following rounds Lightsaber roll for example, or cause opponent to forfeit initiative, Add extra Damage to the strike, etc...). Perhaps at 4-5 Success levels it could be things like Lightsaber Locking, Disarm, Overwhelm (Removing the oponents lightsaber and forcing them to dodge and use force skills or physically go recover it could end a battle, Overwhelm could possibly up a damage result by 1 wound level but be careful). I could flesh these out better and think of more if I had access to my notes and archives. I would allow the winning player to choose the maneuver/exploit from the appropriate tier. I would not make all of the moves in any tier equal, I would certainly make some more flash and style and less susbstance and I will explain later.

[KageRyu]

Force Use in Simplified Dueling
•Using a Force Point should double any rolls made for One round, just as it always has in RAW.
• Force users should not need to spend CP to use force powers, this is too penalizing for a force user.
•Extra Skill usage and Force Usage outside of those in the dueling rules should be declared after initiative and Maps applied to the Lightsaber role.
•Some of the Exploits and maneuvers could involve or include the use of a force ability or power at no Maps penalty as a special way of speeding up dueling. I would keep these to starting at 2nd success tier and up, and make the better abilities at higher difficulties. For example, at Tier 2 maybe a force push where winning player rolls Telekinesis and opponent must make a separate defense roll of some sort or be knocked off balance automatically losing next initiative. I would put the ability to use telekinesis to swipe the opponents lightsaber at Tier 4 or 5. Maybe include the ability to add Control to damage as part of this Exploit Tier so it is not automatic? Say Tier 3 or 4 for that? Maybe do the same for Sense adding to Lightsaber skill, say tier 2 or 3(Maybe Tier 2 a premonition gaining !d to next rounds skill, Tier 3 Danger Sense granting +2D, at Tier 4 full on future sight adding full sense die code)? Then eliminate the need to "raise" the lightsaber combat power?
• Allow force uses outside of the exploits as normal actions in a round with appropriate maps affecting Lightsaber skill.

Just rough Ideas. These would I feel still need a lot of work to keep it interesting and also fast and dramatic.

I might say that any rolls of the Lightsaber skill that are just a regular success not at least gaining 1 extra level do not grant a damage strike since you are eliminating the strikes and parries and resolving it with a single roll - this way there will be some rounds where lightsabers are clashing and no hits landed.
I might also suggest having some of the tier 1 exploits being things that could "stack" over several rounds until a roll is lost...so it becomes possible for two closely matched opponents to see one get an advantage from several won rounds in succession.

More Ideas for Exploits/Moves:
Gain Ground(t1) - advance or move the fight in desired direction, Push Back(t1) - Force oponent in desired direction (toward obstacle or trap), Unorthodox Attack (t2) make a brawling attack (head but, kick, graple) and resolve with appropriate skill and damage, Avoid (t2) - Use athletics or force abilities to avoid next opponents successful attack or exploit but forgo any damage roll this round, Athletic Combo (t3) - Use Athletics or force powers to avoid opponents next successful attack and instead inflict base damage on him, Sweep (t3) - Strike multiple opponents for base damage, Weapon Break (t5) - Destroy opponents Lightsaber and inflict base damage (ends duel unless opponent has a spare lightsaber)
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[ebertran]

Wow, lots to take in!

Thanks for taking the time to read and providing feedback, which is always welcome. One shouldn't post on forums seeking validation, but rather constructive criticism, which I received on various places I'e posted my rules, and with al sorts of different results. Twitter loves the direction they're headed in, while here they are a little more scrutinized (expected as this is d6 focused exclusively).

My goal here, as I've stated before, was to try to create a version of lightsaber dueling that stepped outside the RAW for the sake of creating a faster cinematic experience, and to really treat duels as the films do--as something special and climactic that either ends campaigns or sends them spinning in a new direction. I believe RAW treats lightsaber dueling as a s*** sandwich, if I'm being honest.

I used Peter Schweighofer's Dueling Blades variant as inspiration because of its simplicity and the fact that its been well received as an alternative dueling option.

"this way there will be some rounds where lightsabers are clashing and no hits landed."

The one thing I do not want to do with this is turn it into a simulationist system. Rounds can be whatever they need to be. 5, 10, 60 seconds... does it matter? And within the time that roll represents, assume that there were moments of lightsabers clashing and not landing hits, but ultimately something will happen... and that's what the rolls represent.

I do agree Force users should not spend currency to use powers, i think that there has to be a way to acomplish that without falling into the RW and MAPS and activating, and keeping powers up, etc etc that feels like a slog at times.

Interestingly enough, Dueling Blades makes no mention of force powers at all...Luke in ESB basically got by on his physical prowess, while Vader lobbed a few items at him with the Force. He could have just choked Luke into unconsciousness and had him dragged away.... In the OT at least, it feels like duelists mostly get by on their lightsaber skills alone and ignore the force (again, Vader did use it in ESB). The prequels certainly stepped it up a notch and aded force pushes and that sort of thing... the sequels don't exist.

[ebertran]