Specialization question

[Mamatried]

So I have a force adept in my group, specilized in double bladed lightsaber at 5D+1, however he has now been abel to raise his lightsaber skill to 5D+2 and according tot he RAW the specialization is now not rolled for, since the default skill is higher.

I have ruled and understand that the person still know how to use this weapon but the rules state that if you no have the specialization so and so penalties are given to the skill use, but when you rise the mother skill-lightsber above the specialization the rules say you loos the specialization rolls at least, but do you still count as specialized for the bonuses.

maul, if he raised his lightsber skill to higher than his double bladed specialization, would he loose the specializations benefits?

[garhkal]

From my understanding, yes.. He's no longer essentially specialized.
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[Mamatried]

So he lose any benefits, like +5 to appry if specialized, and +1 difficulty level and no parry bonus for non specialized......

Also this question came up with qualifying for lightsaber forms, in which it statd lightsber XD in requiremnts, will this include the specialization.

as in Joe the jedi has lightsaber specialization double bladed at 7D but lightsaber skill at 5D+1, soe he qualify for a style requiring 7D to lightsber skillas his specislization is high enough, or does he not sinc e the requiement is the main skill?

[pakman]

Um.....

He would just use the higher core skill.... it is not like he forgot the specifics of the double blade.


You don't "lose" your knowledge of a specific thing, just because you learn more of a general concept.
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[Mamatried]

Well with the specielizatio it is I belive moderate difficulty on the weapon and a bonuse to parry

Now with the loss of the bonus, or rather if not specilized it stated that because of the weapin being so and so cumbersome, unusual etc and all that the difficulty is now 1 step higher. and I of course do not gain the parry bonus, but my skil, in lightsber is better and this is what do not make sense ot me.

I would belive that when you have invested CP into a skill and this is raised becuse reasons and neede to etc, to equal or higher than a spciality the spacility goes avay, and this is fine when the effect is a mere +pip or +Dice, but when it actual abiliries and effects beyond this I find hard that we unlearn as we progress.

I would think that any spesific bonuses may go away as they are balanced out by the higher skill, but I would not thing that all the speciality is lost, as if never held the weapon so I am about to suggest that the bonuses may in some cases carry over, but the penalties are not.

meaning I have lightsaber 5D and specialized at 6D, and I have raide the skill to eventually 6D, and loosing the specialization, but I do keep the parry bonus for this weapon only, and it is not more difficult to use. this becuse of the cost of cp invested and it not making sense ot unlearn as you progress in a skill

[garhkal]

That is why, i never understand why someone would even TAKE a specialty, BUT RAISE HIS core skill, to where the specialty is no longer higher...
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[fogger1138]

[Mamatried]

The issue that came up here was not the specialization rules per say, nost times it is adding dice and pips and you loose the duce and pips when the skill is equal or higher than specialization.

Blaster: 4D
Blaster-Pistol 5D
raise Blaster to 5D and loose Specialization at no effect on game

but

Weapon has ability depending on speciality, adding +X to skill/damage
rules text gives incresed difficulty for weapon and loss of bonuse if not specialized......

those are two very differnt things, in fact they are night and day different,a dn in the latter case, like with the zenji needles of the mistryl guards, here the weapon gives str+3d+1 when specialized and str +1D when not, if you then rais the skill to

Thrown wepon 4D
Thrown Weapon Zenji Needles 5D

Raise Thrown Weapon to 5D
Now you suffere amnesia and severe memory loss and the actual loss of any and all knowledge of a "signature" weapon, the bonus is pr rules no gine becuse the skill is not specialized,

so how to solve that, becuse specializing and losing a simple sill dice/pip is fine and do balance out fully but loosing all abilities, bonsuses and gain penalties becuse you IMPOROVE your skill and get better and then have less skill makes absoultely no sense to me

I am thinking that is you have a specializzation , you have it forever, as in the effects of it, but of course if applies to that weapon/item only

so the person do raise his thrown weapon skill and loses the SKILL DICE inclreace in the Zenji needels, since there is no differenc he uses his skill, however he does when using his needles still gain ALL benefits of being skilled with the weapon, but this only applies to his zenji needles not his knives or his rocks

[KageRyu]

I have been trying to follow this thread and understand it, but you seem to be confused as to how specializations work. I will try to explain, but you should also read up on skills and specializations in greater depth.

[Mamatried]

From offical WEG suppliment Gundark......pg 15

Zenji Needles ( I think related to mistryl and the tapani books )

pg 15:

Zenji Needles
Model: Custom-made Mistryl zenji needles
Type: Throwing needles
Scale: Character
Skill: Thrown weapons: zenji needles
Cost: Not available for sale
Availability: 4
Damage: STR+3D+ I when used with thrown weapons: zenji
needles specialization, otherwise STR+ ID



As stated here black on white and by RAW, since this is an offical suppliment, here you will lose all benefits of the Specialization if you now raise the main skill to be equal or higher than the specialization score


Thrown weapon 4D
Thrown Weapons-Zenji Needles: 5D
Damage with Weapon STR + 3D+1

Then raising the general skill, meaning toy get better at throwing ALL weapons, you actually loose 2D strength on the weapon.

I can only reason this bny some memory loss, forgetting techniques or something odd.

OR it is meant that (maybe mentioned somewhere in some book IDK) that once you have picked up a specialization and use and item that comes with a secialization bonus then you can use this always after having learned it.

so the Above will still raise the skill to 5D and loose the Zenji spec, but keep the techniques in memeory since well it makes sense and then acutally keep the specialization damage.

if never specialized the damage is always STR + 1D+1

This is one such incident where the sepcialization "loss" makes little to no sense at all.

I can not for the life of me imagine that if I put my scoped hunting rifle in the safe and then train shooting for the next year or so I am sure I will not in any way forget how the scop wirks, or what is the barrel and stock.....

[KageRyu]

@Mamatried, I do not currently have access to that book (it is in storage with most of my collection) - if that is there, I stand corrected, but will still call that poorly written by whoever wrote it(and would very much like to consult the fluff to see the justification given to a damage boost related to having a specialization). However that does not have anything about the difficulty being lower or higher either, and that is not the double bladed lightsaber your OP and replies were primarily about, which only exists in fan stats (and too many versions to count at that).

As has already been said by others, raising your core skill above the specialization does not make you lose your specialization or forget anything. You still have the specialization - you just use the higher die code of the core skill to hit.
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[Mamatried]

@KageRyu

yes the debate came up with what is a fan write up I belive of the double bladed lightsaber, it is sort of what triggered but there are some other weapons that also have -abilies and bonuses- when specialized.

the book by the way Gundark, is in the library here I belive. (the red gundark book)


I also agree that the damage bonus is insanely high

I do however belive that some of the double balded and even the tonfa ting something lightsaber are both actually applied bilities like this, and I belive in d20 official scourses thout there is no spcialization system there so it may well be a conversion error

I jusr checked with force unleashed d20 WEG supliment and looked at the tonfa thing, took a while remembering it was named guard shoto, but I found it, it is there a weapon you can use weapon focus on etc, and when you are skilled in that weapon the weapon grants +2 to blok and defend in the d20 system, I can easily see this translate to a +5 to parry in D& and a weapon needing a spaeciality of the skill to use since it is special and exotic to say the least.

Double lightsaber also has some bouses in the d20 systrem so it matches pretty well I would thing, and it again bring me back to the bonuses and becooming more proficient in the skill only to be "worse" and ike with the super op needle things any damage or bonus, I am a better lightsaber combatant so I forgot how to use my weapon to defend, but I could before....

[KageRyu]

[garhkal]

[Whill]