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Whill
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pakman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2021
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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We should really lock this thread - what happens to the OGL for dnd5e has ZERO bearing on anything related to d6, or star wars.
At all.
That and, even if it did - you can't invalidate a new agreement, unless you accept a new one. Just because someone puts one out there - it does nothing on its own, without people using and accepting the new one.
just my 2 credits.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| pakman wrote: | We should really lock this thread - what happens to the OGL for dnd5e has ZERO bearing on anything related to d6, or star wars.
At all. |
At least two users here disagree, the OP and the 'sky is falling' guy.
Yes, it has absolute zero impact on WEG Star Wars, a completely dead non-OGL D6 game.
As I stated in my last post, it is having an indirect effect on on a "popular" (relative to D6 fandom) OpenD6 variant: Mini Six. They will eventually be leaving the original OGL behind for future products.
And it is big general RPG industry news that as gamers many of us are at least somewhat interested in. I mean, who hasn't played some form of D&D at some point in their life? It's probably the only game outside of WEG Star Wars that most of us here have a common experience in.
Everything I've seen so far gives me the impression that the bulk of the game industry is moving away from having anything to do with WotC (no matter what they do going forward) because they showed their @ss. This apparent mass exodus is not only of peripheral interest to us–It may even affect us more directly because some more gamers may come our way.
| pakman wrote: | | Just because someone puts one out there - It does nothing on its own, without people using and accepting the new one. |
That is my understanding as well. If someone uses the new OGL that includes agreeing to the deactivation of the old one.
Wizards of the Coast ~ OGL: FAQ (Archive)
| WotC wrote: | Q: Can't Wizards of the Coast change the License in a way that I wouldn't like?
A: Yes, it could. However, the License already defines what will happen to content that has been previously distributed using an earlier version, in Section 9. As a result, even if Wizards made a change you disagreed with, you could continue to use an earlier, acceptable version at your option. In other words, there's no reason for Wizards to ever make a change that the community of people using the Open Gaming License would object to, because the community would just ignore the change anyway. |
WotC's own website said this as least as recently as 11/27/21, a little over a year ago.
Although it was not mentioned in the OP, I was later informed that his sources were "IP lawyers on YouTube" who said that OGL 1.0a will be unauthorized by the new OGL. I looked and I couldn't find any such videos. I wonder if they had to take their videos down after an onslaught of opposition to them. If anyone has any links directly to expert opinions stating the current OGL allows it to be deauthorized at will by the name of the company on it by it, please share them.
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Inquisitor1138
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Joined: 28 Nov 2021
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Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:23 pm Post subject: WotC/Hasbro declares war with OGL 1.1 |
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I am glad i did not post the day i learned about this OGL strategic blunder; twitter crashing my craputer may have helped me to slow down & breathe; i was toxic at that point...
Concerning Disney:
Knights of the Old Republic, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, and the in development remasters of those games (currently suspended due to 'internal issues'), which are made under OGL 1.0a, as those PC/Console games use d20 STAR WARS.
Concerning the Tolkien Estate:
Lord of the Rings RPG, the new/current one, uses the D&D 5e system.
IF Hasbro/WotC tries to take their money with OGL 1.1, it'll get really ugly, really fast...
Should Disney Lawyers & Tolkien Estate Lawyers join forces, they could destroy Hasbro/WotC.
I also urge those who want to do something: Cancel your D&DBeyond & other WotC subscriptions if you haven't already...
Call in to respectfully inform Hasbro/WotC of your opinion on OGL 1.1...
Don't be rude or abusive. It is both unfair and counter productive.
Wizards of the Coast's phone number is (425) 226-6500.
Hasbro at 800-255-5516.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmFBpbUWYAEOSxg?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmFBpbUWYAEOSxg?format=jpg&name=medium
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | WotC/Hasbro declares war with OGL 1.1 |
This is old news. Although WotC has irrevocably shown their @$$, they have already officially recanted. Please reread this thread (and see below) to catch up to the present.
| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | Concerning Disney:
Knights of the Old Republic, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, and the in development remasters of those games (currently suspended due to 'internal issues'), which are made under OGL 1.0a, as those PC/Console games use d20 STAR WARS.
Concerning the Tolkien Estate:
Lord of the Rings RPG, the new/current one, uses the D&D 5e system.
IF Hasbro/WotC tries to take their money with OGL 1.1, it'll get really ugly, really fast...
Should Disney Lawyers & Tolkien Estate Lawyers join forces, they could destroy Hasbro/WotC. |
Thanks for this info about these games.
Not being much of a video gamer, I didn't know about the KotOR games running on a d20 engine. I can't imagine that d20 would make a good video game engine, but maybe it would make an excellent video game engine. All I know for sure is d20 makes a $h!tty TTRPG game engine.
I also didn't know that the current LotR RPG runs on 5e. I only own the Decipher game that is more based on the films. I love Middle Earth and I'd love to own all the Middle Earth RPGs, but I count that there are now three RPGs I don't have and that's a lot of $$$.
Maybe this was a legal consideration of WotC, but due to recent updates it probably doesn't matter now.
| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | I also urge those who want to do something: Cancel your D&DBeyond & other WotC subscriptions if you haven't already...
Call in to respectfully inform Hasbro/WotC of your opinion on OGL 1.1...
Don't be rude or abusive. It is both unfair and counter productive.
Wizards of the Coast's phone number is (425) 226-6500.
Hasbro at 800-255-5516... |
Thanks for sharing this. I wholeheartedly approve.
I long accepted 'D&D primacy' in the RPG industry mainly because it basically always has been on top. Then they gave away their game system to be used for free and many use it, helping them to keep their stranglehold on the game world.
But as a result of this OGL debacle which has clearly revealed WotC as anything but a benevolent benefactor, the RP gamer community is largely finally opposed to WotC/D&D/d20 supremacy. I'm all for #BoycottDnD.
Even though the first two D&D movies weren't very good, I as still looking forward to the new one. I'll see it eventually at home, but I am definitely not going to see it in the theater.
Now, to address the fear many have, the last two official statements from WotC:
"And again, any content you have already published under OGL 1.0a will still always be licensed under OGL 1.0a."
The second one is from WotC's new statement today. The war is over but we should never trust the enemy tyrant again. Now it is time for 'economic sanctions' against them.
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Last edited by Whill on Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2272
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | Concerning the Tolkien Estate:
Lord of the Rings RPG, the new/current one, uses the D&D 5e system. |
The above statement that "Lord of the Rings RPG, the new/current one, uses the D&D 5e system" isn't accurate at all. The former license holder, an Irish company named Cubicle 7, made a game called The One Ring (TOR) and eventually made a whole line of products with a 5e variant called Adventures in Middle-earth that basically repackaged all of their TOR stuff (rules, splat books, and adventures) using the OGL.
The current license holder, Fria Ligan (Free League) is a Swedish company that made a new version of The One Ring. This game is a second edition of the one made by Cubicle 7, and, like the first edition, is not a d20 game. There is not a new version of Adventures in Middle-earth yet, though they have said they do plan to make one eventually.
I never played MERP back in the 80s, but I ran (and played) a ton of both Decipher's game, as well as both TOR (The One Ring) and Adventures in Middle-earth. You're right that there's a ton of product out there for the various games. Adventures in Middle-earth is my favorite, but it was never the biggest/most popular of the various systems.
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Inquisitor1138
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: | Concerning the Tolkien Estate:
Lord of the Rings RPG, the new/current one, uses the D&D 5e system. |
The above statement that "Lord of the Rings RPG, the new/current one, uses the D&D 5e system" isn't accurate at all. The former license holder, an Irish company named Cubicle 7, made a game called The One Ring (TOR) and eventually made a whole line of products with a 5e variant called Adventures in Middle-earth that basically repackaged all of their TOR stuff (rules, splat books, and adventures) using the OGL.
The current license holder, Fria Ligan (Free League) is a Swedish company that made a new version of The One Ring. This game is a second edition of the one made by Cubicle 7, and, like the first edition, is not a d20 game. There is not a new version of Adventures in Middle-earth yet, though they have said they do plan to make one eventually.
I never played MERP back in the 80s, but I ran (and played) a ton of both Decipher's game, as well as both TOR (The One Ring) and Adventures in Middle-earth. You're right that there's a ton of product out there for the various games. Adventures in Middle-earth is my favorite, but it was never the biggest/most popular of the various systems. |
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2022/10/lord-of-the-rings-roleplaying-5e-pre-order-now-adventure-in-the-shire-today.html
| BoLS wrote: | Free League’s Lord of the Rings Roleplaying 5E is out for pre-order now. With it, the Shire opens up to your games of 5th Edition.
Free League takes their popular One Ring 2nd Edition RPG and adapts it to the 5th Edition ruleset. Which, funnily enough, makes this the 2nd ever Lord of the Rings themed 5th Edition adaptation, along with Adventures in Middle-earth. What makes LotR RPG stand out is the adaptation of the One Ring 2E ruleset.
This means, for one thing, extensive rules for going on long journeys and meeting with councils. But what’s more, if you pre-order Lord of the Rings Roleplaying 5E, you’ll get a pdf version immediately. Details below.
Lord of the Rings Roleplaying 5E – $46.65 |
seems Legit.
https://screenrant.com/lord-rings-tabletop-game-5e-dungeons-dragons-dnd/
https://screenrant.com/dnd-dungeons-dragons-lord-rings-lotr-5e-version/
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely legit. Just not actually out yet (in printed form). Their biggie (which IIRC they made $2 million on the Kickstarter for) is The One Ring. So even with this company, this isn't the primary Tolkien rpg.
Also curious that they don't have this listed under the 'Games' tabs on their website.
My guess is the actual printed copies will be delayed if there are any OGL issues to work through.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Also, a quick perusal of their forums shows that it's not even finalized. They're still soliciting feedback and haven't finished the character sheet, for instance.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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For reader clarity, here are the Middle Earth RPGs that have come out so far.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Middle-earth_role-playing_games
I remember the ICE MERP game from my childhood but I wasn't that interested then. I actually started playing D&D a year before reading The Hobbit. I suddenly got that Tolkien was the primary influence on D&D, but I still didn't feel the need to get a second fantasy game. At the high school job where I bought the first two WEG Star Wars books on the day they came in, they had the MERP game and I still didn't get it even though I could have gotten it 40% off. I regret it now. I just learned about the existence of the basic version of the ICE game put out in the 90s. I'm sure either one of these are very expensive nowadays.
As stated previously, I have the Decipher game (the core book and sourcebooks for the first two films). I have this thing of collecting RPGs based on my favorite movies.
Doug told me about The One Ring game, but both editions are expensive. I hadn't heard about the digital-only d20 version, but I have no interest in that whatsoever.
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KageRyu
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Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | For reader clarity, here are the Middle Earth RPGs that have come out so far.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Middle-earth_role-playing_games
I remember the ICE MERP game from my childhood but I wasn't that interested then. I actually started playing D&D a year before reading The Hobbit. I suddenly got that Tolkien was the primary influence on D&D, but I still didn't feel the need to get a second fantasy game. At the high school job where I bought the first two WEG Star Wars books on the day they came in, they had the MERP game and I still didn't get it even though I could have gotten it 40% off. I regret it now. I just learned about the existence of the basic version of the ICE game put out in the 90s. I'm sure either one of these are very expensive nowadays.
As stated previously, I have the Decipher game (the core book and sourcebooks for the first two films). I have this thing of collecting RPGs based on my favorite movies.
Doug told me about The One Ring game, but both editions are expensive. I hadn't heard about the digital-only d20 version, but I have no interest in that whatsoever. |
First Edition, second printing in very good shape is $80-90, not too bad for books of its age. There are some books and games from that era I would love to have that are into several hundred dollars.
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Banzaidyne
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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I look forward to seeing what happens with that.
I’ve been playing and building a D6 port from the Heavy Gear setting for the last ten years. It would be different if I could find out what Nocturnal Media was doing (switching to the ORC, a CC license, whatever), but their being off the air is aggravating, to say the least.
I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread for news. Look forward to talking to you folks.
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the Pit, Banzaidyne!
Ha! I beat Whill to the punch! 
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | Welcome to the Pit, Banzaidyne!
Ha! I beat Whill to the punch! |
Thank you for picking up my slack and being so welcoming to new members!
| Banzaidyne wrote: |
I look forward to seeing what happens with that.
I’ve been playing and building a D6 port from the Heavy Gear setting for the last ten years. It would be different if I could find out what Nocturnal Media was doing (switching to the ORC, a CC license, whatever), but their being off the air is aggravating, to say the least.
I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread for news. Look forward to talking to you folks. |
Welcome!
Even while Stewart Wieck was still with us, Nocturnal Media didn't do anything with D6 except for license it to Gallant Knight for Zorro and license the WEG branding to FFG for use in the Star Wars 1e Anniversary reproduction. Now the NM website has gone offline so I wouldn't expect any word from them any time soon.
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Banzaidyne
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Joined: 11 Jan 2023
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Right, I’ve heard from the publisher of Mini Six and he said the same thing. I’ll just knock things out as fast as I can - I finished one project earlier tonight.
Back to work!
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