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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | While I agree with the general sentiment that RAW shield rules have issues and we address those differently, I disagree that +1 or +2 is not worth the shield roll in the first place in RAW, especially when you have multiple characters on a ship each doing something different in the battle. Now if you have a single character doing it all in the middle of combat, no, the MAP may not make it worth angling the shields for that small of a benefit.
But also remember, the roll is only for when angling to a different fire arc. If a pilot or shield operator sets the shields to a certain arc, you only have to roll for shields when changing them again. So you can set the shields before combat begins and leave them there, getting the +1 or +2 benefit to hull rolls on that arc without new shield rolls, until the shields are blown. Just sayin'. |
And since X-wings have R2 units (or R5/R7 etc) in their slots, THOSE droids can be doing the shield rolls, while the pilot, PILOTS..
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| If the Astromech has the Shields skill, that is. |
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Point, it doesn't have a listed skill, but do droids get like human (and alien) pcs do, where they can Default to attribute if they lack the skill??
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Point, it doesn't have a listed skill, but do droids get like human (and alien) pcs do, where they can Default to attribute if they lack the skill?? |
I recall that droids can only perform actions based on their programmed skills, but I checked the 2nd edition R&R and did not see that spelled out explicitly... |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:55 am Post subject: |
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When I did the TIE Droid Brain post, I was mostly focusing on how to duplicate the drone TIE ships seen in X-Wing: Alliance. However, subsequent discussion led to a slightly different concept that I'm thinking about incorporating from the Solo deleted scene that Whill mentioned, which I'm conceptually calling the TIE Droid Co-Pilot. The idea would be for this to be standard equipment on TIEs with a single pilot who also have additional duties or weapons, such as ordnance launchers or reconnaissance (right now I'm thinking the TIE/rb, TIE/gt, TIE Bomber and likely some of the later craft like the Avenger and Defender). I'm also going to edit the TIE Droid Brain stat to better reflect the Crew Quality house rule to give TIE Droid Brains a higher base skill but not allow them to take advantage of Crew Quality (due to regular memory wipes and the like). Anyway, I'm a bit too tired to put in the work tonight, but I figured I'd at least get a post about where my mind is heading in the morning.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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An interesting possibility occurred to me as I was researching for the TIE Droid Co-Pilot concept...
It's an established part of the lore that the Empire doesn't grant their starfighter pilots the same level of trust as does the Alliance. It's also known that there was a shift in this attitude with introduction of hyperdrive-equipped craft piloted by high-ranking and/or elite pilots. So, what if the Droid Co-Pilot also serves as a failsafe against the pilot defecting?
If you look at the stats on the stock Astromech, it has 5D in Astrogation, which is better than that of most pilots. As such, I see the Empire using the droid both to handle normal Astrogation duties (that way they don't have to give the pilots additional training) and as oversight to ensure that the pilot doesn't try to set his own course and defect. It could even offer the semblance of independence by allowing the pilot to calculate his own course, with the Droid Brain providing "shadow oversight" without the pilot's knowledge. This feature could be overridden, but only by inputting a master code known only to high-ranking Imperials.
Not only would this line up with Imperial doctrine and thought processes, it would also be a great way for GMs to keep a team of PCs from stealing those cool new experimental TIE fighters they ran across in that hidden Imperial base.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Imperial Copilot Droid
The Copilot Droid is a droid brain hardwired into the systems of the more advanced TIE models, as well as several others like the Assault Gunboat. As the missions expected of TIEs became more and more complex, and with later models including ordnance launch capabilities that were dependent on target locks, repeated tests showed that Imperial pilots lacked the skill level to perform the multiple, simultaneous tasks required to make full use of their craft's capabilities. In response, the Empire introduced a simple, mass-produced droid brain that could split the workload with the pilot. Because not all of the droid's capabilities would be needed on all the various types of fighters, the brain was designed to accept plug-in modules for shield control and hyperdrive operation that would only be included when installed in a ship with those capabilities.
What isn't widely known is that, as the Empire experiments with and fields more and more hyperdrive equipped fighters, the Copilot Droid serves as a fail-safe to prevent any treason-minded pilots from defecting with their valuable starfighter. When equipped with the Hyperdrive Control module, the Copilot Droid normally handles all Astrogation duties, but can be manually overriden by the pilot. However, the Droid is monitoring any course entered by the pilot, and can override his commands, preventing the hyperdrive from activating, or overriding the programmed course and returning the ship to its home base. This can be overriden via an authorization code known only to high-rank Imperials and their agents, or by completely disabling the droid brain (Moderate Droid Programming roll).
Skills:
Piloting 3D+1
Gunnery 3D
Sensors 3D+2
Repair 3D
Upgrade Modules:
Shield Control
Installed only on fighters equipped with shields, with a Shields skill of 3D
Hyperdrive Control
Installed only on fighters equipped with hyperdrives, with an Astrogation skill of 5D
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Inquisitor1138
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Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 612
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:23 pm Post subject: R-41 Starchaser Multi-Role Starfighter |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | R-41 Starchaser Multi-Role Starfighter
Image
The R-41 Starchaser is a Clone Wars-era starfighter designed as one of the first production models to be fitted with an integral hyperdrive, and not the hyperdrive booster ring in more common use at the time. Despite the added mass and energy requirement, the R-41 has a decent balance of maneuverability, speed, durability and firepower when compared to contemporaries like the Z-95 Headhunter. However, this came at the cost of added expense, which made the R-41 less attractive to cash-strapped governments looking to outfit their system defense forces, and as such, the R-41 was never as popular as some other models. By the time of the Battle of Yavin, it was showing its age, but still in common use in system defense forces and private operators, as well as the Alliance, who used it as a second-line fighter to free up more modern and capable fighters for front-line combat.
The R-41 features a roomy, comfortable cockpit that can accomodate a small amount of cargo or a bolt-down passenger seat. Its well balanced weapons suite allows a single craft to engage in a wide variety of mission types, including, interception, strike, or superiority, although its relatively anemic sensor suite hampers it in a reconnaissance role.
Craft: Hoersch-Kessel R-41 Starchaser
Type: Multi-Role Starfighter
Scale: Starship (+6D)
Length: 16.3 meters
Skill: Starship Piloting: R-41 Starchaser
Crew: 1
Crew Skill:
Astrogation 3D+2
Gunnery 3D+2
Piloting 3D+2
Shields 3D+1
Sensors 3D+1
Cargo Capacity: 110 kg or 1 Passenger
Consumables: 2 weeks (1 week if carrying a passenger)
Hyperdrive Multiplier: x2
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverability: 3D
Space: 8 (4D)
Atmosphere: 365; 1,050 km/h
Hull: 3D
Shields: 0D+2
Sensors:
Passive 20/0D
Scan35/1D
Search 40/2D
Focus 2/3D
Weapons:
2 Laser Cannon (Fire-Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (Pilot)
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Range:
--Space: 1-3/12/25
--Atmosphere: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 5D
2 Light Ion Cannon (Fire-Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (Pilot)
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Range:
--Space: 1-3/7/16
--Atmosphere: 100m/300m/700m/1.6km
Damage: 4D (ionization)
2 Light Warhead Launchers
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (Pilot)
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Rate of Fire: 1
All Other Stats vary by Weapon Type
Capacity: 4 per Launcher. May select Light Missiles & Rockets from this list, depending on Availability.
House Rule Notes:SHIELD & SHIELD CONTROL: 1D @ 1D
VELOCITY MODIFIER: 2D Flight |
These are pretty good!
I've been comparing the stats posted at http://d6holocron.com/wiki/index.php/R-41_Starchaser with these;
| Quote: | Star Wars D6 - Conversion - The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide
R-41 Starchaser, p15
Maneuverability: 2D+1
Space: 8
Atmosphere: 365; 1,050 kmh
Hull: 3D+1
Shields: 1D+1 |
and | Quote: | Star Wars D6 Starships Stats R&E censored
R-41 Starchaser, p30
Maneuverability: 2D+1
Space: 10
Atmosphere: 415; 1,200 kmh
Hull: 2D
Shields: 2D+1 |
for a while now. I appreciate CRMcNeill pulling back the curtain to explain why he chose the stats he used.
My SWU is likely to use CRMcNeill's R-41 as the base model & have 2-3 minor variants, and 2 versions of the R-42.
My first question is in regards to the version that is as fast as a TIE fighter; does anyone here know if it was done on a whim, or is there something from the Star Wars: X-Wing Alliance game to support it?
Even if there isn't, i can see FreiTek/Rebel Techs modding some Starchasers into interceptors for Rebel groups that want/need A-wings but can't get them.
I figure maybe a few hundred made it into the GAR, but after the Clone Wars they were quickly sold off to systems' defense fleets & security forces. I highly doubt that any were used by the Empire.
I had another question but can't remember atm; when i do remember i'll edit it in here.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: R-41 Starchaser Multi-Role Starfighter |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | My first question is in regards to the version that is as fast as a TIE fighter; does anyone here know if it was done on a whim, or is there something from the Star Wars: X-Wing Alliance game to support it? |
Well, I can't say for certain, since I had no hand in their creation. However, I did a little digging, and found an old stat post for the R-41 in the AOL Mailing List+ Archive link in the Downloads page. There isn't a post date, but the formatting is reminiscent of the content of the old mailing list, and while some of the fluff has been changed (specifically the manufacturer's name), the stats match.
I can't speak for whatever scientific process was used to convert the stats, but it's noteworthy that the same group originally published the stats for the TIE Defender that gave it a Space of 17. My personal theory is that they used the A-Wing as a baseline for their conversion, and since the A-Wing in the X-Wing PC games only had an equivalent Space of 10 (and not the 12 found in the WEG stats), that creates problems when trying to convert over ships that have an equivalent Space higher than 10.
Which brings us back to why I decided to re-do all the XW:A stats in the first place.
Of course, I never bothered to compare the other stats (Hull, Shields and Maneuverability), so I could be completely wrong. However, IMO, my versions turned out much more balanced than those I had seen posted previously.
| Quote: | | Even if there isn't, i can see FreiTek/Rebel Techs modding some Starchasers into interceptors for Rebel groups that want/need A-wings but can't get them. |
An interceptor variant isn't outside the realm of possibility, so long as it's balanced out and loses something in trade for the extra speed.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 612
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: R-41 Starchaser Multi-Role Starfighter |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | Even if there isn't, i can see FreiTek/Rebel Techs modding some Starchasers into interceptors for Rebel groups that want/need A-wings but can't get them. |
An interceptor variant isn't outside the realm of possibility, so long as it's balanced out and loses something in trade for the extra speed. |
I was thinking, an increase in the fighters Cost, as per RAW modifying starships (system in Stock Ships or Platt's Smuggler's Guide?) would be most common, but other tradeoffs are possible/likely depending on a variety of factors.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10447
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 612
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:41 am Post subject: Re: R-41 Starchaser Multi-Role Starfighter |
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| Whill wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | I was thinking, an increase in the fighters Cost, as per RAW modifying starships (system in Stock Ships or Platt's Smuggler's Guide?) |
Galaxy Guide 6: Tramp Freighters |
Thanks, Whill!
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The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
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Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:16 am Post subject: R60 T-wing Interceptor & TIE Interceptor |
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In EU/Legends, the TIE Interceptor was introduced in 1 ABY, whereas 'canon' has them introduced in 3 ABY, with prototypes being produced as far back as 14 BBY.
What i am doing for my SWU/SWM, is hybridizing this chronology, with the production model TIE Interceptor rolled out in 1 ABY, with prototypes being produced since 15 or 16 BBY.
My thinking on the R60 T-wing Interceptor, is it was at least roughly concurrent with the TIE Interceptors' development.
What are your thoughts on the R60 T-wing Interceptor's chronology?
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Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:38 am Post subject: Re: R60 T-wing Interceptor & TIE Interceptor |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | In EU/Legends, the TIE Interceptor was introduced in 1 ABY, whereas 'canon' has them introduced in 3 ABY, with prototypes being produced as far back as 14 BBY.
What i am doing for my SWU/SWM, is hybridizing this chronology, with the production model TIE Interceptor rolled out in 1 ABY, with prototypes being produced since 15 or 16 BBY. |
Most of the WEG core books focus on the period between ANH and TESB, with the Interceptor already in service. I'd say the TIE Interceptor was already being introduced as of ANH, but wasn't yet in wide service. And a 16-17 year gap between prototype production and entering full service seems absurdly long to me, especially for a platform that is an incremental improvement over the regular TIE. Maybe if someone made a prototype that looked like an Interceptor that sat around collecting dust for over a decade before Seinar engineers circled back around to it, but certainly not if that entire time was spent working on it.
| Quote: | My thinking on the R60 T-wing Interceptor, is it was at least roughly concurrent with the TIE Interceptors' development.
What are your thoughts on the R60 T-wing Interceptor's chronology? |
The problem comes with the T-Wing being a product of the Hoersch-Kessel Corp, which was canonically allied with the Separatists. They almost certainly got nationalized after the Clone Wars , so any background for this ship would need to be re-worked (which is what I did, making it into a planetary defense fighter for Separatist worlds during the Clone Wars).
I've also never liked how the EU made it a limited run prototype, so in my re-write, I made it a Clone Wars relic to justify having it be more common. I included all this in the fluff section on the stat post.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
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Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: R60 T-wing Interceptor & TIE Interceptor |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: | My thinking on the R60 T-wing Interceptor, is it was at least roughly concurrent with the TIE Interceptors' development.
What are your thoughts on the R60 T-wing Interceptor's chronology? |
The problem comes with the T-Wing being a product of the Hoersch-Kessel Corp, which was canonically allied with the Separatists. They almost certainly got nationalized after the Clone Wars , so any background for this ship would need to be re-worked (which is what I did, making it into a planetary defense fighter for Separatist worlds during the Clone Wars).
I've also never liked how the EU made it a limited run prototype, so in my re-write, I made it a Clone Wars relic to justify having it be more common. I included all this in the fluff section on the stat post. |
Interesting...
According to https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hoersch-Kessel_Drive%2C_Inc., they have retconned the R60 T-wing Interceptor to having been made for CIS as you have, but not made it in the R60 T-wing Interceptor's entry...
Also interesting is this;
| Hoersch-Kessel Drive, Inc. wrote: | | In an attempt to make HKD more profitable, its Nimbanese owners closed down the corporation, shutting down hundreds of factories and entire design divisions. This drove many designers and engineers away from the corporation, further weakening the company. Ownership of HKD changed many times between the Clone Wars and the end of the Galactic Civil War. |
This is giving me tonnes of ideas...
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Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
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