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Mamatried
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Location: Norway
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 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:29 pm Post subject: New Skill: Instruction |
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Im am comsidering a new skill, maybe making it an advanced skill most likely under knowledge.
Teaching/Instructing people is relevant for aomong other force users and the 3D minimum to "teach" a skill.
I have yet to work out the mechanics, so if anyone want to take a shot, go ahead.
I am thinking that this skill will allow shorter times to learn a skill/power and even a lower cost of cp, but only for the student of course. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Ive had an 'instruction' skill for a while..
Instruction; With this skill a teacher can lessen the time it takes to instruct a person in a new skill, specialty or advanced skill. It can also be used to give a temporary increase to a teacher’s skill for instruction.
System: Instructor must have a minimum of 5d in the skill to be taught (which replaces the need to have 2d above the students).
Making an easy roll takes 15% off the time
Moderate roll takes 20% off the time and saves the student 1CP
Difficult roll takes 25% off the time and saves 2CP
V.difficult roll takes 30% off the time and saves 3CP
Heroic roll takes 35% off the time (the max which can be saved) and saves the student 4CP.
No Specialties.
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Mamatried
Commodore
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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WOW!
Well seems I don't have to do the math on this, GREAT! |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10435
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:24 am Post subject: Re: New Skill: Instruction |
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Mamatried, good idea for a thread. Some people are better at teaching than others. I had long thought of whether teaching ability should be a skill in the game, but wasn't sure how to represent that in the game so I never got around to making a thread about it.
garhkal's ideas that it can reduce the training time is not bad. I'm less sure about it reducing CP costs though.
One option would be to make teaching/instruction a specialization of scholar.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Just reducing time imo was not enough of a bonus for someone using this skill, especially at the higher levels of rolling it.
Now if it shifted to
Making an easy roll takes 15% off the time
Moderate roll takes 20% off the time
Difficult roll takes 25% off the time and now saves 1CP
V.difficult roll takes 30% off the time and still saves just 1cp
Heroic roll takes 35% off the time (the max which can be saved) and saves the student 2CP.
That i'd be ok with.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:38 am Post subject: |
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I can see a "CP reduction" here without breaking balance.
The teacher manages a Heroic Difficulty roll, and of course the time is reduced.
The student CAN now roll to see if he can get his cp ( 1 CP only) back, this if he then succeeds a skill roll in the though skill at a heroic level.
So when the techer makes a heroic roll, a CP can be returned to the student
when the student makes an heroic roll (his Exams) in his thought skill he will get back 1 CP |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | No Specialties. |
Alternately, make it an (A) Skill, then allow Specialization in individual Skills
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Mamatried
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | No Specialties. |
Alternately, make it an (A) Skill, then allow Specialization in individual Skills |
Very good thought.
Make "field" specilailzations based on the teacher's advanced skills.
he can use this advanced skill as if it was his teaching skill, if lower or equal.
with this advanced skill he can in turn teach advanced skill if he has 3D or more in the Advanced skill.
I am also seeing that the teacher can teach "specialities" but at a slightly lower cost over all.
Example: The Blaster Instructor only teaches the student Rifle, giving him/her (s)Balster-Rifle: as speciality |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Of course, if it's an (A) Skill, what would be the Prerequisites? My first thought was Scholar, but you don't necessarily have to have book learning to be able to teach someone a practical skill like Blaster or Repair. The Know How skill from D6 Space would be a good candidate, I think, but not everyone uses it...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Of course, if it's an (A) Skill, what would be the Prerequisites? My first thought was Scholar, but you don't necessarily have to have book learning to be able to teach someone a practical skill like Blaster or Repair. The Know How skill from D6 Space would be a good candidate, I think, but not everyone uses it... |
I don't feel the know-how skill in D6 Space is very applicable. Its primary use is in figuring out how to perform an action (in which you do not have any experience) on your own, without instruction. It's also a catch-all skill covering areas not covered by other skills, such as utilitarian sewing and cooking. Personally, I rolled this ability into Perception base attribute. Fairly simple tasks you can repeat by observation and/or puzzling out how it should work in your mind.
The ability to convey, instruct, teach, and train is its own ability. Scholar is a good idea for a prerequisite. It is true that a lot of skills someone could be good at instruction with are not academic in nature, but a teaching skill is an add-on to the existing rules for training. You don't even have to use this skill at all to train. It just provides some additional benefits. Most "trainers" of a wide variety of fields do go through some sort of training to be a trainer. Another possible prerequisite is command, since there is often leadership involved in training. I see the ability to be an effective trainer to involve social interaction so there should be a Perception component.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:09 am Post subject: |
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Since most teachers IRL need 'degrees', to become a teacher, scholar as a pre-req i can easily see..
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Since most teachers IRL need 'degrees', to become a teacher, scholar as a pre-req i can easily see.. |
Okay, but you don't have to be a trained teacher to be able to teach someone. An illiterate tribesman can still teach a child how to weave a basket or shoot a bow-and-arrow. Teaching doesn't require formal structure, just the ability to pass on knowledge in a manner that's understood by the recipient.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | I don't feel the know-how skill in D6 Space is very applicable. Its primary use is in figuring out how to perform an action (in which you do not have any experience) on your own, without instruction. It's also a catch-all skill covering areas not covered by other skills, such as utilitarian sewing and cooking. |
Fair points. I like to keep it as a skill (which defaults to the Attribute, of course) so that characters can potentially specialize in sewing, cooking, etc, as well as improving their ability to intuitively perform tasks.
| Quote: | | The ability to convey, instruct, teach, and train is its own ability. Scholar is a good idea for a prerequisite. It is true that a lot of skills someone could be good at instruction with are not academic in nature, but a teaching skill is an add-on to the existing rules for training. You don't even have to use this skill at all to train. It just provides some additional benefits. Most "trainers" of a wide variety of fields do go through some sort of training to be a trainer. Another possible prerequisite is command, since there is often leadership involved in training. I see the ability to be an effective trainer to involve social interaction so there should be a Perception component. |
Agreed; IMO, teaching is primarily an interpersonal communication, which falls squarely under Perception (although it obviously requires an understanding of the subject being taught).
Honestly, I'm on the fence as to whether or not it should be an (A) Skill or just a regular Perception skill, since some people are just naturally good at teaching and don't require any sort of training or study to be able to do so (although formal training is certainly helpful). If an (A) Skill is preferred, maybe it could just fold the "must have 2D or more higher skill level than the person being trained" rule into it as the Prerequisite.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Since most teachers IRL need 'degrees', to become a teacher, scholar as a pre-req i can easily see.. |
Okay, but you don't have to be a trained teacher to be able to teach someone. An illiterate tribesman can still teach a child how to weave a basket or shoot a bow-and-arrow. Teaching doesn't require formal structure, just the ability to pass on knowledge in a manner that's understood by the recipient. |
Very true, but you also wouldn't even need an instruction skill to pass on knowledge. The existence of a teaching skill doesn't suddenly require its use. You can still train the normal way in RAW. What we are talking about here would just be an add-on for possible additional benefits, like reduced training times.
I took AP Calculus my senior year in high school, but I struggled with it and decided I would just try again in college. I did and it moved at about double the pace, but I aced it fairly easily the first year. I realized that my high school calculus teacher had just been a bad teacher.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | The ability to convey, instruct, teach, and train is its own ability. Scholar is a good idea for a prerequisite.... Most "trainers" of a wide variety of fields do go through some sort of training to be a trainer. Another possible prerequisite is command, since there is often leadership involved in training. I see the ability to be an effective trainer to involve social interaction so there should be a Perception component. |
Agreed; IMO, teaching is primarily an interpersonal communication, which falls squarely under Perception (although it obviously requires an understanding of the subject being taught).
Honestly, I'm on the fence as to whether or not it should be an (A) Skill or just a regular Perception skill, since some people are just naturally good at teaching and don't require any sort of training or study to be able to do so (although formal training is certainly helpful). If an (A) Skill is preferred, maybe it could just fold the "must have 2D or more higher skill level than the person being trained" rule into it as the Prerequisite. |
I have had a lot of applicable real world experience with this on both sides of instruction. On our planet, you can become a college professor just by getting a phd in the subject, without ever taking any education classes. Some of my college professors seemed to be naturally good teachers, and some weren't. In my working life, I have attended countless trainings. Some trainers were good at it, some weren't.
My university's Learning Center offered free tutoring for students, and I got a job there as a math tutor. I found that I had a knack for it and became a good tutor. I found that many students paid attention in class and took notes, but just weren't getting it until I made it make more sense to them. For a while I considered becoming a math teacher due to hearing so many people say they hate math because they never had a good math teacher.
I think I'm leaning towards making instruction a regular Perception skill. This allows or characters to be a natural instructor but also to improve instruction ability with experience and training (because you can teach how to teach). It doesn't have to be an advanced skill to have rules for instructor skill level in whatever they are instructing.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | The existence of a teaching skill doesn't suddenly require its use. You can still train the normal way in RAW. What we are talking about here would just be an add-on for possible additional benefits, like reduced training times. |
Exactly. To use your example, your high school Calculus instructor may have had dice in Scholar: Calculus, but not nearly so much in Instruction: Calculus. While he may have possessed the appropriate knowledge, he lacked the communication skills needed to convey that knowledge in a way that was easily understood.
I had similar experiences with a pair of Economics instructors: one in high school and one in junior college. The one in HS had had a stroke and was barely understandable, but had tenure and refused to retire, while the one in college was singularly unable to avoid shooting off on tangents when asked questions, and as such, everything I learned about econ in that class was largely self-taught.
| Quote: | | I think I'm leaning towards making instruction a regular Perception skill. This allows or characters to be a natural instructor but also to improve instruction ability with experience and training (because you can teach how to teach). It doesn't have to be an advanced skill to have rules for instructor skill level in whatever they are instructing. |
I concur. The aspect of some people being naturally gifted at teaching is a better fit for a Perception skill than an Advanced one.
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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