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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:14 pm Post subject: Wookiees, Armor and Sneak |
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I had an idea regarding how brokenly OP Wookiees can be if you put them in body armor. Now, a lot of the fluff on Wookiees has also played up their hunting skills, which usually comes with a degree of stealthiness.
Conceptually, what I'm thinking is 1) tossing the Berserker Rage and 2) granting Wookiees a bonus to Sneak that they lose if they're wearing armor. Alternately, give Wookiees the option of 2-for-1'ing any dice put into Sneak at character creation (representing time spent honing their stalking and hunting skills), and start applying Armor Dexterity penalties to Sneak for everyone, not just Wookiees.
I realize this doesn't balance Wookiees - just alters the form of the imbalance - but the general premise seems a decent fit for the established lore of the Wookiee species.
Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Ninja-Bear
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Sep 2016
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| What about perhaps putting a Max of Defense Dice (or Resist)? So say the Max is 6D, it doesn’t matter if it comes from completely from STR or STR plus Armor. Or if you just used D6 Space Rules? I can see giving a penalty for Stealth because you’re wearing Armor and DEX penalty too! |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16282
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Ninja-Bear wrote: | | What about perhaps putting a Max of Defense Dice (or Resist)? So say the Max is 6D, it doesn’t matter if it comes from completely from STR or STR plus Armor. |
Can you rephrase this, please? I'm not quite sure what you're saying.
| Quote: | | Or if you just used D6 Space Rules? |
I'd need to refresh on exactly what D6 Space rules apply here.
| Quote: | | I can see giving a penalty for Stealth because you’re wearing Armor and DEX penalty too! |
We've got a conversation around here somewhere about realistic armor penalties where Naaman (whose position in the military has given him a lot of experience in wearing armor) made the point that Armor doesn't really affect Dexterity all that badly, and that realistic armor penalties should be applied in other directions...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10406
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Wookiees, Armor and Sneak |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Ninja-Bear wrote: | | What about perhaps putting a Max of Defense Dice (or Resist)? So say the Max is 6D, it doesn’t matter if it comes from completely from STR or STR plus Armor. |
Can you rephrase this, please? I'm not quite sure what you're saying. |
I think he is saying that total Damage Resistance (STR+armor bonus) maxes out at a certain die code, like RAW has melee weapons that include Strength in the damage code max out at a certain point.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | I had an idea regarding how brokenly OP Wookiees can be if you put them in body armor. Now, a lot of the fluff on Wookiees has also played up their hunting skills, which usually comes with a degree of stealthiness.
Conceptually, what I'm thinking is 1) tossing the Berserker Rage and 2) granting Wookiees a bonus to Sneak that they lose if they're wearing armor. Alternately, give Wookiees the option of 2-for-1'ing any dice put into Sneak at character creation (representing time spent honing their stalking and hunting skills), and start applying Armor Dexterity penalties to Sneak for everyone, not just Wookiees.
I realize this doesn't balance Wookiees - just alters the form of the imbalance - but the general premise seems a decent fit for the established lore of the Wookiee species.
Thoughts? |
Tossing berserker rage is a winner, but I can never condone 2-for-1. It is a broken rule from a game balance perspective. If you want Wookiees to have a stealth bonus, just give them a flat bonus to the skill roll. Not 2-for-1. The Wookiee player can still choose to allocate 1 or 2 skill dice to sneak at the normal rate of 1 for 1, which still represents that character's experiences from their background.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16282
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Wookiees, Armor and Sneak |
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| Whill wrote: | | Tossing berserker rage is a winner, but I can never condone 2-for-1. It is a broken rule from a game balance perspective. |
I tend to agree; I was just spit-balling and figured I'd throw out a couple suggestions to get things rolling.
Do you think it would work better if applied to something more specific? For example, Bowcaster is a pretty narrow skill; you can only use it to fire a bowcaster, not a blaster or a firearm, so any dice you put into it is only going to be useful under specific circumstances (i.e. you must have a bowcaster, and not one of the myriad of different blaster types and classes available). So, using the 2-for-1 rule could potentially be an offset for requiring a character to spend dice on a narrow-focus skill.
| Quote: | | If you want Wookiees to have a stealth bonus, just give them a flat bonus to the skill roll. Not 2-for-1. The Wookiee player can still choose to allocate 1 or 2 skill dice to sneak at the normal rate of 1 for 1, which still represents that character's experiences from their background. |
What would be some other possible limiters? Maybe only have the Stealth Bonus apply in woodland conditions, since all of the Wookiee's formative hunting experience will be under those conditions?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10406
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: Wookiees, Armor and Sneak |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Do you think it would work better if applied to something more specific? ...So, using the 2-for-1 rule could potentially be an offset for requiring a character to spend dice on a narrow-focus skill. |
No, I don't think so it would work better. IMO, 2-for-1 is anathema to game balance and can never be justified. Not only does it mean player characters get a variable number of starting skill bonus dice, but someone can start out with 4 skill dice higher than attribute. That's ridiculous. If you give a flat bonus to all skill rolls of a certain skill, then the player may allocate 0, 1, or 2 starting skill dice to the skill and have an effective starting skill of 1, 2, or 3 dice above attribute. That's good enough.
| Quote: | | Bowcaster is a pretty narrow skill; you can only use it to fire a bowcaster, not a blaster or a firearm, so any dice you put into it is only going to be useful under specific circumstances (i.e. you must have a bowcaster, and not one of the myriad of different blaster types and classes available). |
It is narrow in RAW, so I've broadened it and made it into a special advanced skill of Wookiees. It combined shooting, repairing, modifying, and engineering bowcasters. (Prerequisite skills include the blaster/energy weapons and missile weapons skills. Since bowcasters are a unique blending of energy and physical range weapons, characters without the skill may attack with a bowcaster by using the blaster/energy weapons or missile weapons skill, whichever is lower.)
| Quote: | | What would be some other possible limiters? Maybe only have the Stealth Bonus apply in woodland conditions, since all of the Wookiee's formative hunting experience will be under those conditions? |
That's reasonable.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14173
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Wookiees, Armor and Sneak |
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| Whill wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Ninja-Bear wrote: | | What about perhaps putting a Max of Defense Dice (or Resist)? So say the Max is 6D, it doesn’t matter if it comes from completely from STR or STR plus Armor. |
Can you rephrase this, please? I'm not quite sure what you're saying. |
I think he is saying that total Damage Resistance (STR+armor bonus) maxes out at a certain die code, like RAW has melee weapons that include Strength in the damage code max out at a certain point. |
Exactly. CAP the amount of soak dice anyone can get, regardless of if its all str, or str+armor..
| Whill wrote: | | Tossing berserker rage is a winner, but I can never condone 2-for-1. It is a broken rule from a game balance perspective. If you want Wookiees to have a stealth bonus, just give them a flat bonus to the skill roll. Not 2-for-1. The Wookiee player can still choose to allocate 1 or 2 skill dice to sneak at the normal rate of 1 for 1, which still represents that character's experiences from their background. |
I've never been a big fan of the 2d for every 1d thing either. I'd rather just give a +1d to sneak rolls...
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | What would be some other possible limiters? Maybe only have the Stealth Bonus apply in woodland conditions, since all of the Wookiee's formative hunting experience will be under those conditions? |
One of the races i made way back when, that the DM allowed in, had a +2d sneak skill, but ONLY when used in urban environs, it became a penalty in woodsy areas.. So i can see limiting it to woodsy for wookies..
Pity the guy died 8 sessions in though (sucks being the back seater for a 2 man Y-wing, and the ship gets hit by a proton torp)..
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