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Leona Makk Lieutenant
Joined: 03 Feb 2018 Posts: 91 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Dredwulf60 wrote: | Effects of Armor:
Protection:
Armor dice are rolled in addition to defense dice (based on the attack) to resist damage. Armor may have different rating depending on the type of attack. The protection rating is given in points.
Combine the total points of all of the armor pieces then multiply by the material’s protection factor. (If the armor is made out of mixed materials, use the weakest of all the material types used in the kit; if it’s a durasteel armor except for a beskar torso…calculate as if the entire kit was durasteel).
Armor coverage: This is the DC required on a called shot to bypass the armor protection;
Add up all the points from the base protection, multiply by x2. This is the DC for an enemy to try to bypass the armor protection. If a shooter rolls higher than this number, then the target does not get the benefit of the armor to soak damage.
Dexterity Penalty: The number of pips of reduction to the wearer’s DEX. This will affect Dex-based skills.
Add up all the points from the base protection.
Multiply by the material’s weight factor.
Convert the resulting points to a die value using the chart. |
Wait a second... Where is the conversion chart? I am making a sample character with your rules and I have some numbers....but what chart do I use to convert points into Protection and Dex Penalties? I don't see it. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16326 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Considering the rule-as-posted is based on Dredwulf's House Rule on Armor providing a fixed Protection value that has to be overcome in order to avoid the wearer's armor protection (which I don't fully understand, so hopefully Dred chimes in with an explanation), I would suggest using the same formula as Dexterity, but with the result being applied to Strength. As in...1) Total up the Protection provided by the various armor components you've selected, and divide by 2 to generate Protection, and by 4 to generate Dexterity penalties.
2) Apply the modifiers from the material the armor is composed of.
3) Divide by 3 to convert to Dice, which is then applied as per the RAW. So, for example, if you have armor with the following components...Component = Protection Points
Helmet = 2
Neck Armor = .5
Shoulders = 1
Torso = 3
Abdomen = 1
Upper Arms = 1
Forearms = 2
Armor Gloves = 0.5
Groin Plate = 2
Thighs = 1
Knees = 1
Shin/Boots = 1 You have a total of 16 points of Protection. Divide that by 2 and you get 8, which you then apply to the armor material modifiers to get Armor Values. Then divide by 4 (result: 4) to generate Dexterity Penalties:Durasteel
x1 Physical = +2D+2 vs. Physical
x.75 Energy = +2D vs. Energy
x.75 Weight = -1D Dexterity
Cortosis Alloy
x.75 Physical = +2D vs. Physical
x1.75 Energy = +4D+2 vs. Energy
x.75 Weight = -1D Dexterity
Beskar / Mandalorian Iron
x1.5 Physical = +4D vs. Physical
x1.5 Energy = +4D vs. Energy
x1 Weight = -1D+1 Dexterity This is how I would convert it based on my read of Dred's house rule.
EDIT: Changed the Dexterity Penalty conversion to reflect what I posted here. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10447 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Player Mandalorians, Dredwulf style! |
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Leona Makk wrote: | Wait a second... Where is the conversion chart? I am making a sample character with your rules and I have some numbers....but what chart do I use to convert points into Protection and Dex Penalties? I don't see it. |
Dred hasn't posted since October. Maybe PM him a link to your question and maybe he'll log in and reply? _________________ *
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Leona Makk Lieutenant
Joined: 03 Feb 2018 Posts: 91 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Player Mandalorians, Dredwulf style! |
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Whill wrote: | Leona Makk wrote: | Wait a second... Where is the conversion chart? I am making a sample character with your rules and I have some numbers....but what chart do I use to convert points into Protection and Dex Penalties? I don't see it. |
Dred hasn't posted since October. Maybe PM him a link to your question and maybe he'll log in and reply? |
I am guilty of long breaks myself...but I am mostly posting pesky questions and extra long anecdotes. |
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Leona Makk Lieutenant
Joined: 03 Feb 2018 Posts: 91 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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CRMcNeill wrote: | This is how I would convert it based on my read of Dred's house rule. |
Sweet! That makes sense to me. Pesky Dex Penalties. I will give it a try. Thanks as always, buddy! |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16326 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Leona Makk wrote: | Sweet! That makes sense to me. Pesky Dex Penalties. |
Honestly, in retrospect, the Dex penalties seem a little high. I'd be okay with dividing the Protection value in half again to generate more normal Dexterity Penalty values. Using my above example, with a Protection of 16, divide by 4 for a base of 4, then run it through the armor material modifiers and you get the following Dexterity penalties:Durasteel = -1D
Cortosis Alloy = -1D
Beskar / Mandalorian Iron = -1D+1 Considering the costs involved, that's a lot more consistent with the few examples we do see of WEG-stat Mandalorian Armor (basically just Boba Fett and Jodo Kast).
Quote: | I will give it a try. Thanks as always, buddy! |
Glad to be of service, as always. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dredwulf60 Line Captain
Joined: 07 Jan 2016 Posts: 911
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Leona Makk wrote: | Dredwulf60 wrote: | Effects of Armor:
Protection:
Armor dice are rolled in addition to defense dice (based on the attack) to resist damage. Armor may have different rating depending on the type of attack. The protection rating is given in points.
Combine the total points of all of the armor pieces then multiply by the material’s protection factor. (If the armor is made out of mixed materials, use the weakest of all the material types used in the kit; if it’s a durasteel armor except for a beskar torso…calculate as if the entire kit was durasteel).
Armor coverage: This is the DC required on a called shot to bypass the armor protection;
Add up all the points from the base protection, multiply by x2. This is the DC for an enemy to try to bypass the armor protection. If a shooter rolls higher than this number, then the target does not get the benefit of the armor to soak damage.
Dexterity Penalty: The number of pips of reduction to the wearer’s DEX. This will affect Dex-based skills.
Add up all the points from the base protection.
Multiply by the material’s weight factor.
Convert the resulting points to a die value using the chart. |
Wait a second... Where is the conversion chart? I am making a sample character with your rules and I have some numbers....but what chart do I use to convert points into Protection and Dex Penalties? I don't see it. |
I think this will help you out. I had it in another thread.
https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7101&highlight=
Thanks to CRMcNEILL for stepping in and making the reverse-engineering attempt.
I appreciate the effort. |
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Dredwulf60 Line Captain
Joined: 07 Jan 2016 Posts: 911
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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CRMcNeill wrote: | Leona Makk wrote: | Sweet! That makes sense to me. Pesky Dex Penalties. |
Honestly, in retrospect, the Dex penalties seem a little high. |
Regarding my DEX penalties, it helps to know that in my house-ruled game I don't have skills building directly off attributes. I have attributes existing independently.
So I could have a character with 3D dexterity and a 2D blaster skill.
I apply the attribute DIE value as a pip bonus to the skill roll.
So this character would roll 2D6+3 to shoot the blaster. (the +3 coming from the DEX. 3)
So when I apply armor dex penatlies....it is reducing dexterity dice...but that ends up just reducing the pip bonus to actually using the skill.
So if the mando armor has a -2D DEX penalty...the DEX functions as 1D.
The same character would then roll his skill 2D6 to attack and only add a +1 pip from his DEX.
Totally not RAW...but that's how I work it and the armor system was built to that spec. |
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Leona Makk Lieutenant
Joined: 03 Feb 2018 Posts: 91 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the clarifications. The Bounty Hunter player in my game is excited to customize some gadgets and your write up has saved me HOURS and HOURS of writing.
I am love the honor system vs. value of armor; encouraging lots of duels and Quick Draws with other Mandos.
After watching (rewatching) some Mandolorian and Book of Boba Fett, I notice that Mando will NOT seek cover in the middle of a fight after his big Beskar upgrade. You have this rule for the difficulty of called shots based on armor materials/locations.
Maybe, what I will try, is using that DC number generated by the quality/quantity of the armor bits to create the DC to hit. If you miss the DC, the Beskar deflects/absorbs the hit.
For attacks and damage that don't have a "to hit" roll the player could still get injured; falling, vehicle damage that affects crew, walking into a trap, grapple damage.
So we can have the cinematic effect of blaster bolts bouncing off the Bounty Hunter without have to take the time to "roll your Strength to Resist Damage."
What do you think? I we play test it I will let you know how it goes. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16326 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Dredwulf60 wrote: | Thanks to CRMcNEILL for stepping in and making the reverse-engineering attempt.
I appreciate the effort. |
Belated glad-to-be-of-service. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16326 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Leona Makk wrote: | Maybe, what I will try, is using that DC number generated by the quality/quantity of the armor bits to create the DC to hit. If you miss the DC, the Beskar deflects/absorbs the hit. |
IMO, that sounds awfully bespoke for what's otherwise a standard Soak vs. Damage roll, which the system already has rules for. If Din Djarin has a full set of Beskar armor, he's Soaking at Str+4D against both physical and energy attacks. The best chance of actually damaging him is going to be hitting him in the armor joints where the Beskar isn't protecting him, and that would be covered by the RNG inherent in the Soak vs. Damage roll in the RAW.
My first thought for something like what you're describing (but more in line with the RAW) would be a Dice Floor (opposite of a Dice Cap) which places a hard limit on how low Armor Dice can roll. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dredwulf60 Line Captain
Joined: 07 Jan 2016 Posts: 911
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Leona Makk wrote: | Thanks for the clarifications. The Bounty Hunter player in my game is excited to customize some gadgets and your write up has saved me HOURS and HOURS of writing.
I am love the honor system vs. value of armor; encouraging lots of duels and Quick Draws with other Mandos.
After watching (rewatching) some Mandolorian and Book of Boba Fett, I notice that Mando will NOT seek cover in the middle of a fight after his big Beskar upgrade. You have this rule for the difficulty of called shots based on armor materials/locations.
Maybe, what I will try, is using that DC number generated by the quality/quantity of the armor bits to create the DC to hit. If you miss the DC, the Beskar deflects/absorbs the hit.
For attacks and damage that don't have a "to hit" roll the player could still get injured; falling, vehicle damage that affects crew, walking into a trap, grapple damage.
So we can have the cinematic effect of blaster bolts bouncing off the Bounty Hunter without have to take the time to "roll your Strength to Resist Damage."
What do you think? I we play test it I will let you know how it goes. |
From personal experience being the GM in an all-mandalorian game, the armor bonuses make them pretty durable. In fact the configurations that cover much of the body, coupled with the more durable materials (beskar) make the characters very difficult to hurt.
(which would account for what we see in Din Djarin's beskar)
This is precisely why I developed the DC calculation to make a 'called shot' to try to hit an armored character in a weak spot.
Most common NPC opponents won't do this. They will just shoot at the mando and hope to get lucky (represented by the attacker making a decent damage roll at the same time as the mando making a low soak roll.)
But for dangerously skilled opponents who are meant to be dangerous the PCs they will certainly try to hit them where they're weak.
Also, my players had some feuds with a rival mando clan who followed the Deathwatch outlook. They found some of them to be almost invulnerable to their blaster pistols unless they made called shots to hit the 'gaps'. (one of the NPCs was modeled after Arnold Schwarzenegger...with a full suit of carbon-cage beskar)
And let's face it, there is going to be a difference between a mando with a beskar helmet, a small chest plate and a pair of knee pads and another mando who is covered head-to-toe in armor! Both in getting a 'lucky hit' and in trying for a called shot.
That's my experience anyhow. |
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