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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Revising Official Capital Ship Stats |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I have a question regarding the OP. I get increasing the damage of the laser cannons of the Nebulon B Frugate, but why didn't you make them 4D damage or change then to dual laser cannons if using 5D damage? Perhaps this was addressed later in the thread, but I was just curious. |
That was actually the route I ended up going. The reasoning was that, while earlier ships mounted only single lasers as a token anti-starfighter defense, the Nebulon and Escort Carrier were developed at a point when the Empire was starting to wise up to the threat posed by starfighters, but hadn't reached the point where they had thought the quad-lasers on the Lancer were needed.
In fact, for some of the Clone Wars era ships, I'm considering downgrading their laser cannon to blaster cannon, since the lighter, faster-firing blaster cannon would be more effective against hordes of light droid starfighters, but less so against the heavier manned starfighters of the Rebellion era.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Revising Official Capital Ship Stats |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I have a question regarding the OP. I get increasing the damage of the laser cannons of the Nebulon B Frugate, but why didn't you make them 4D damage or change then to dual laser cannons if using 5D damage? Perhaps this was addressed later in the thread, but I was just curious. |
That was actually the route I ended up going. The reasoning was that, while earlier ships mounted only single lasers as a token anti-starfighter defense, the Nebulon and Escort Carrier were developed at a point when the Empire was starting to wise up to the threat posed by starfighters, but hadn't reached the point where they had thought the quad-lasers on the Lancer were needed.
In fact, for some of the Clone Wars era ships, I'm considering downgrading their laser cannon to blaster cannon, since the lighter, faster-firing blaster cannon would be more effective against hordes of light droid starfighters, but less so against the heavier manned starfighters of the Rebellion era. |
Sorry, I should have read the entire thread. My hat's off to you on this effort, because it helped push me to finally let go of the RAW for many of these ships and embrace a more logical approach. No more laughing at the arrival of a Nebulon B! |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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You should see some of the upgraded variants I've come up with, like a Nebulon equipped with 12 tower-mounted quad-laser cannon that can bring up to six to bear in any fire arc.
Pretty much all the ships I mentioned in the early pages have received fully updated stats that can are linked to the Index in my signature.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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The prequels have shifted a lot of what we as fans knew (or assumed, at least) about the Clone Wars. One thing that has occurred to me recently is, in a war where it was not uncommon for a capital ship to carry hundreds or even thousands of small, fragile starfighters, there's a clear lack of weapons designed to counter that threat.
I'm considering changing the anti-starfighter weaponry on Clone Wars-era ships to better reflect this, by giving them Blaster Cannon in place of Laser Cannon. In my stats, blasters have lower Damage and Range, but have higher Fire Control and Rate of Fire, which makes them much better suited to something like taking on swarms of vulture droids. This, in turn, makes them less capable of taking on the tougher, shielded fighters the Alliance likes to field in the Rebellion-era. This could, in turn, lead to mixed armaments where dual blaster cannon turrets get swapped out for single-barrel laser cannon (because doubles won't work with the power supply in the dual-blaster mounts), so older ships could have some mix of Laser Cannon (as per the WEG stats) and older Dual Blaster Cannon.
EDIT: Here's a tentative list of the ships that this would potentially affect, based on their age and back story:Onager
Carrack
Caravel
Bulwark
Profundity
Venator
Victory
Proclamator
Neutron Star
CC-9200, 9600 and 7700
Delta-Series
EDIT 2: Removed the Dreadnaught from the tentative list, since its one of the few Clone Wars era ships equipped with decent heavy anti-starfighter firepower (quad-lasers).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
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Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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To that note about the Clone Wars, I have been recently thinking about those swarms of Vulture droids. I just happened to run swarms of them against my players in a game. Based on their actual size and numbers, I have been thinking more and more that they should be Walker Scale instead of Starfighter Scale (or Speeder Scale based on your revised scales).
Every source out there has Vultures as Starfigjter Scale, but I don't think I've that. They would be harder to hit of course, which would require all thoseRepublic stargighters to counter. I did not even think about giving lower Scale blasters to the ship's, but that is a fantastic idea! |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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I could've sworn I saw Vulture Droid stats that had them at Speeder-Scale (which never really made sense to me, since even by WEG's rule-of-thumb of making all Walkers Walker-Scale, it should've been at least Walker-Scale), but now I can't seem to find it. But yeah, under my system, having them be 2D below Starfighter emphasizes their agility and fragility while still allowing them to be somewhat competitive with peer craft, even if just by fighter-spamming them. Frankly, having them be shape-shifting seems a needless expense that isn't tactically useful and just adds complexity (and thus vulnerability to damage) that isn't really needed for a mass-produced droid starfighter. I'm inclined to headcanon them out of later models by saying that the originals seen in TPM were actually re-purposed scout droids with both flight and leg propulsion modes.
But I digress...
I'm thinking I'll give the ships on the above list the stats for both Dual Blasters and Laser Cannon, then have the option of just Dual Blasters (pre-refit), 50/50 mixed Dual Blasters and Laser Cannon (partial refit) and just Laser Cannon (full refit). Bearing in mind that even the full refit is a stop-gap measure, as newer vessels will be fitted with more capable dual- and quad-laser cannon.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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My re-work of missiles and torpedoes has left the Common Ordnance Launchers rather behind the times. So, I'm envisioning a bit of an update, with three different types of launchers, firing two different Scales of Ordnace (Frigate and Destroyer). The Frigate-Scale Launchers will be firing basically the same weapons in the Heavy Ordnance post for externally-carried ordnance for starfighters. I will also incorporate my kinetic strike missile crossover concept as an orbital bombardment option.
The Destroyer-Scale Launchers will be split into two categories: Heavy Warhead Launchers and Heavy Warhead Launch Tubes. The Launchers will be turret or casemate mounted systems similar to laser cannon; the Launch Tubes will be fixed, internally mounted launchers ala torpedo tubes on modern submarines, and will mostly be used to give Frigate-Scale vessels a limited ability to launch Destroyer-Scale warheads. The Destroyer-Scale warhead will be similar to the Frigate-Scale ones, but adjusted for Scale and with greater range.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10435
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I could've sworn I saw Vulture Droid stats that had them at Speeder-Scale (which never really made sense to me, since even by WEG's rule-of-thumb of making all Walkers Walker-Scale, it should've been at least Walker-Scale), but now I can't seem to find it. |
You probably saw these stats from Freddy B at RPG Gamer. Maybe he didn't care about WEG's rule of thumb and just made them how he thought they should be.
| Quote: | | But yeah, under my system, having them be 2D below Starfighter emphasizes their agility and fragility while still allowing them to be somewhat competitive with peer craft, even if just by fighter-spamming them. |
Your speeder scale does seems like a good fit for them, and this goes right along with the fluff I've read that says these droids were made to be agile and have a low profile (making them harder to hit), but not made with durability due to mass producing them to overcome opposition with swarm tactics.
| Quote: | | Frankly, having them be shape-shifting seems a needless expense that isn't tactically useful and just adds complexity (and thus vulnerability to damage) that isn't really needed for a mass-produced droid starfighter. I'm inclined to headcanon them out of later models by saying that the originals seen in TPM were actually re-purposed scout droids with both flight and leg propulsion modes. |
I would think that a feature of scout droids would be durability and working alone or in few numbers, so that doesn't seem to fit as much. But I do not at all disagree that shapeshifting so they can walk for ground patrol is needless complexity and expense (repulsorlifts for ground patrol would make more sense that walking). In real life, the only reason they walk is for a creep effect on the viewers. Applying that in-universe seems like the only logical reason for that design, to have a psychological effect.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Your speeder scale does seems like a good fit for them, and this goes right along with the fluff I've read that says these droids were made to be agile and have a low profile (making them harder to hit), but not made with durability due to mass producing them to overcome opposition with swarm tactics. |
If it weren't for the Walker Mode, I'd just make them Starship-Scale with 1D Hull and high Maneuverability and be done with it.
However, there is a feasible way to headcanon the ship transitioning between two Scale sizes. I came up with it while considering how to stat Fractalsponge's interpretation of the Basilisk War Droid. Short version, when the ship is in Flight Mode, its particle shielding helps maintain rigidity, but when it goes into Walker Mode, the particle shield has to be powered down (or detuned, at least) to work around all the moving parts. This reduces the ship/droid's overall Hull Strength, but improves its Maneuverability, especially in tight quarters.
However, Fractal's Basilisk is better equipped to take advantage of that modularity since it's equipped with claws and a semi-autonomous droid brain that can engage in close combat without the pilot's input. I picture it fighting in close quarters like a giant bird of prey, using its talons for giant melee attacks and its laser cannon in place of a beak.
| Quote: | | I would think that a feature of scout droids would be durability and working alone or in few numbers, so that doesn't seem to fit as much. But I do not at all disagree that shapeshifting so they can walk for ground patrol is needless complexity and expense (repulsorlifts for ground patrol would make more sense that walking). |
I was thinking more from the perspective that being able to walk allows for better stability and maneuverability in tight quarters, with the legs serving as physical anchors and stability points. This fits mostly within the scope of my distinction between landspeeders and airspeeders, since an airspeeder or starship wouldn't normally have the ground-effect tractor field used by landspeeders, and would need some sort of non-repulsor locomotion when on/near the ground.
I have it mapped out in broad strokes how the different propulsion methods mesh insofar as strengths and weaknesses, but I haven't been able to translate them across into a usable set of rules yet. Someday...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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I've made my first update of the Common Ordnance Launchers post, bringing it more in line with my Starfighter Ordnance House Rules. Essentially, Frigate-Scale Ordnance Launchers on Capital Ships use the same weapons as the Starfighter Heavy Ordnance, with a few minor additions, like adding the kinetic bombard as a warhead option for the Heavy Rocket.
The post hasn't been fully updated for the Heavy Launcher yet, because I still need to write up the rules for the weapons, but it is on its way. Once I get that done, then I'll be going back through the Capital Ship stats and updating them to reflect the new rules.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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I went ahead and made the changes I mentioned in this post regarding revised point defense weaponry for Clone Wars-era capital ships. All ships have the stats for both single-laser cannon and dual-blaster cannon; GMs pick whether the ship you're throwing at the PCs has one, the other or a mix of both.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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The Victory I came up in conversation over on the Fractal Discord and sparked an interesting idea.
Practically from the beginning, WEG has the Victory I as relatively underpowered with an emphasis on planetary attack. However, as the setting has progressed, the Victory I's ability to operate in a planet's atmosphere is no longer unique, as we see lots of capital ships in the prequels and subsequent works doing just that. The working theory in the Fractalverse is that the Victory series and the Venator have the same main reactor, and that the Venator's larger profile is solely to accommodate the main hangar bay, so there's some question as to why a ship with effectively the same power output would have such lower performance compared to similarly-sized ships. In addition, the Victory has serious problems from a scale standpoint, in that while a troop complement of 2,040 may be enough to take on a small colony, it's nowhere near enough to take on an entire planet all by itself.
As such, I've been rethinking the Victory I's background, with a focus on emphasizing its planet attack role as a fire support and rapid response ship supporting larger, multi-corps surface operations. The slow sublight engines would be a design compromise in order for the ship to be equipped with augmented repulsorlifts for greater atmospheric speed and maneuverability.
In a support role, the Victory I would sit in low orbit, using its missile launchers to provide fire support. It also transports a fully reinforced assault battalion (complete with a full contingent of walkers) that can be rapidly deployed from either an onboard complement of dropships, or by the Victory I directly. In the latter case, the Victory I uses its high atmospheric performance to rapidly descend to just above the planet's surface at exactly the point where the troops are needed, and the walkers are then lowered directly to the ground by in-bay tractor beams (this capability is demonstrated in Han Solo's Revenge, when a Victory I lowers a cargo basket as a personnel transport), while still providing fire support with turbolasers and concussion missiles.
Speaking of Han Solo's Revenge, having the Victory I be a lot faster in atmosphere would help resolve the final battle of the novel, in which (going by WEG's stats), a Victory (Space 4) was able to run down a pirate corvette (Space 5) which had just gotten done chasing down the Millennium Falcon (Space 8).
To do this would only require some minor changes to the stats, specifically to Atmosphere and Maneuverability. I'm thinking of bumping the Maneuverability to 2D+2 in Atmosphere, with a speed of 350; 1,000 kph (the Atmosphere equivalent of Space 7) while keeping the Space at 4.
Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10435
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | That seems reasonable. It could even have a dedicated Maneuverability (Atmosphere) stat higher than its space Maneuverability. |
Exactly. It'd look thusly:Maneuverability: 2D (2D+2 Atmosphere) And there is precedent both in my homebrew stuff and official WEG stats. The Z-95, for example, has the Atmosphere of a ship with Space 9, even though it's Space 7. I've played around with this precedent to add granularity when I wanted a ship to have better atmospheric performance.
Although this would be by far the biggest ship I've done it to...
EDIT: Implemented the changes I proposed above.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Per a request from Sutehp, I intend to do some stats for Space Stations. I'll be concentrating on stations with stats in official sourcebooks, with some selected from other books in order to create a more rounded selection of stats. The stations I will be doing are...Rendili StarDrive Space Dock (Thrawn Trilogy SB)
Core Worlds Engineering Skyhook (Shadows of the Empire Sourcebook)
Rendili StarDrive Space Defense Platform (Planets Collection, Derilyn write-up)
Rendili StarDrive Type I Light Duty (Hideouts & Strongholds, but will be redone as the XQ-Series Station from the X-Wing games)
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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